They’ve done it. At the second attempt Dublin made no mistake, winning this evening’s All-Ireland football final replay by a comfortable margin of six points. Jim Gavin’s all-conquering team made history at Croke Park by running out winners over Kerry by 1-18 to 0-15 to seal their fifth All-Ireland title in a row.
I was in two minds in the fortnight between the drawn game and this evening’s replay about how this one would go. Straight after the final whistle sounded two weeks ago I was adamant that Kerry had missed the boat, having failed to finish off a rattled 14-man Dublin team. The Dubs had looked well in charge in the drawn match up until Jonny Cooper’s dismissal and so it seemed like a reasonable assumption that in a 15-v-15 contest they’d have sufficient firepower to prevail.
In the lead-up to today’s rematch, though, my reasoning began to shift. I felt that the draw would have boosted the confidence of this largely youthful Kerry team and that a confident Kerry side could well be a dangerous proposition. I thought Kerry might sneak it by a point or two.
At half-time this evening – after a breathless, all-out-attacking opening 35 minutes – that theory was still standing. Although Dublin threatened to pull away early on, when they quickly built up a four-point lead, Kerry did well to battle back and square the contest before the break at ten points each.
It was as good a half of football as you could have wished to see. Both sides’ forward units were on fire and both sets of rearguards had a torrid time of it. All of Dublin’s scores came from play – indeed, the only placed-ball score they’d get all night was a late ’45 converted by Dean Rock – and the champions didn’t shoot a single wide, though three efforts at the posts fell short.
Kerry would surely have been delighted with that opening half. They’d survived Dublin’s opening onslaught and looked well set to have a right go at it after the break.
By now Dublin had Diarmuid Connolly on the pitch but it was an enforced change, with Jack McCaffrey having to retire from the fray with a leg injury.
Right from the restart, Dublin struck for what would prove to be the game’s killer score. Eoin Murchan grabbed possession when David Moran punched down the throw-in into his path and the Na Fianna player took off like a rocket, the Kerry defence opening up like a zip. With only Moran flailing in his wake Murchan bore down on goal, taking a generous number of steps before burying the ball in the right corner of the net.
It was a sensational score and, to be honest, Kerry’s challenge was dead from that point onwards. They did manage to cut the deficit back to two points at one stage but the gap then hovered around the 3-4 point mark for most of the second half, as Dublin increasingly took control of the contest and sucked the life out of Kerry’s challenge with bouts of lateral possession play.
When Kerry did manage to get hold of the ball their attacks were rushed and their shot selection went from bad to worse. They missed a good goal chance, when Stephen O’Brien shot straight at Stephen Cluxton, and their wide count rose sharply as the second half wore on.
In the end, Dublin cantered in rather serene fashion to the five-in-a-row, keeping the Kerry lads comfortably at arm’s length and winding down the clock in leisurely fashion. It wasn’t a hammering but it was an emphatic six-point win.
It’s a win, of course, that makes GAA history and it would be churlish not to acknowledge it as such. This Dublin team is the most successful in Championship history and tonight’s victory seals their place as a peerless team in the game’s history books. They’re a remarkable bunch of players and what they have achieved this decade under Jim Gavin’s management brooks no argument.
The growing concerns that the rest of us might have about where the inter-county game is headed, given Dublin’s all-encompassing dominance, won’t worry their fans tonight. Why should it? Their team has just made history and it’s an achievement they’ll surely celebrate with gusto. Good luck to them.
Those of us outside the blue bubble can do little more than look on with a mixture of envy and admiration, and – in our case – think of what might have been. Oh well – here’s to 2020 and the chance for all of us to dream anew once more.
144 thoughts on “Dublin seal historic five-in-a-row”
Great achievement for a county with small population and limited resources.!!!!!
Could end up 6 or 7 in a row ..
Hopefully our lads will put a stop to them next year .
A huge part of me still believes they’re akin to mercenaries…but you have to say they are a fantastic team. A different level and they’ll win at least 7 in a row and money to be continuously thrown their way…grrr!! But hats off to them, huge congrats. It’s some achievement when ya sit back and think about it
A great team. History makers. Well done to Dublin. I find myself wondering are we as far away from ever witnessing an all Ireland win for ourselves…one would do us at this stage.
Well done to Paddy and Colm getting on RTE team of the year. Surely one of them will get an All Star.
Our first half against them in 2015 replay was as good and had the same score line.
Yes it’s a good achievement however I’m a bit miffed by all the media adulation. They’ve population and financial resources over everyone bar Kerry and that’s the root cause of their success. After all, why aren’t Leitrim or Carlow going for the 5 in a row? How many AIs would the ‘great’ Gavin win with those counties?
Success is relative but that’s not called out enough.
Boyler and Durcan on team of year….. deservedly so.
Congrats to them but The dubs have peaked, if we had 2 weeks rest this year, different story…maigheo go deo
Good luck to them, my arse. A totally lopsided championship with the city slickers having all the advantages. Let’s keep ignoring the elephant in the room.
Pocaimora – So true
Best quote I read today somewhere was congratulating Dublin for achieving the 5 in a row is like patting the young fellow on the back and calling him a real ladies man because he paid for a prostitute.
@Pocaimora and WDM…. Of course it’s totally skewed Championship… but you still have to congratulate them (the Dub’s’)on winning 5 in a Row… While I do genuinely appreciate, just how good and consistent this Dublin Team has been for such a long time now,, Several Great Player’s, Probably the Player of the Decade, Stephen Cluxton, and several other Magnificent Player’s… The PAID, and sometimes unpaid administrator’s of a so called Neutral GAA, are the reason the Dub’s’ have so many unfair advantage’s over every other County… The GAA is a Demoracy of a type, in Theory at least, the Club’s, the Club members and so on could get rid of the many of our administrator’s…. I have a question for ye, How good are the people repesenting this County, or indeed other Counties (hounerable exception of Donegal) in demanding more of a level playing field?….If the GAA Demoracy worked like a Demoracy should this would not be the case…. GAA President John Horan, and other’s should see the danger signs, an All Ireland Final Replay, and Mayo with their enormous Support Base, getting to the All Ireland Semifinal by the long and winding road will disguise the attendance figures for this year…. The low attendance at this year’s Leinster Football Final is more repesentive of the true state of interest in the Skewed Football Championship….No better men to kill the Golden Goose, who once laid the Golden Egg!… They need to be saved from themselves, a bit like the Captain of the Titanic before it’s too late!
Introduced the game to two American friends (wife was a Fitzgerald with, surprise, Kerry roots). I had a bit of difficulty trying to explain fouls and over carrying, lol. She was quite critical of Kerry’s accuracy in the second half. I said I feel your pain!!!!
A team of automatons with no personality driven by a big machine behind them with all the aces stacked in their favour. Cynical tactics constantly being employed and not pulled up on by officials or media (Con O’Callaghan didn’t deliberately try to pull down Morley when through on goal?… please don’t insult my intelligence), regular but subtle 3rd man tackles very seldom even noticed but enough to buy the shooter half a second of time and space, and a PR dept emphasizing the “modesty” of the team, allied to that a crowd of attendees at Croke Park (not “fans”, “supporters” or “followers” as we would understand them) with their soccer chants and bravado who wouldn’t recognise the real sense of the GAA if it was put in front of them…..
I’d rather be Mayoman, thank you.
Young fella that’s a bit harsh. We are well versed in the dark arts ourselves. As for calling the Dublin fans attendees….there weren’t too many Mayo fans at the 2011 Connacht final or our shock win over Cork in the quarter final….there are many Mayo people I hear roaring at games who haven’t a clue.
And yes I wouldn’t want to be from anywhere else than Mayo but everyone loves their own county. Try and take off the rose tinted glasses.
Well said @youngfella .Some people donr like the truth
Congrats to Dublin.
They are by any measure the greatest team ever to play football and in this era of Dublin’s domination, Mayo are still the team closest to them.
As much as it galls me to say it, even with the lobsidedness, I feel myself admiring their hunger and I’m not sure it can be bought!
Anyway, I have to go to work now……life goes on.
The ‘money moan’ is tiresome now. A fair chunk of Dublin money is distributed to the rest of country via the GAA. Regarding the rest of said money……. There’s 100’s of clubs in Dublin, for example, in Tallaght area alone- 5 clubs…… At the end of the day, this is a magnificent achievement, and if you don’t ‘buy into’ how down to earth or humble this group is, look at the respect the players from other counties have for them & the respect the Dubs players show their opponents
Look at the end of it dublin can only put 15 men on pitch they have always had more money & population but 10 yrs ago they were a joke what has happened since then is they have got their house in order at county board level got coaches into schools again & had sucess at youth level then senior sucess followed . I dont think mayo are far off them we have fine young players coming through young carr was excellent this yr will only get better . So well done dublin but we’ll be there hoping that we get breakthrough next year.
Always thought Kerry had better forwards than Mayo but turns out they don’t. That second half was criminal. I’d say their accuracy was around 30%.
Congrats to Martin the Dub a regular poster here.
Am I the only one who saw it, but did anyone see Cliffords elbow into Murchan’s head. Was in the lead up to the pull down of Morley by O’Callaghan.
Never even spoken about by the panel, should have been at least a yellow if not more. Diarmuid O’Connor got red for something similar against Paul Conroy a couple of years back. Thought Lane absolutely rode Dublin at times yesterday.
On the game itself, as Mayo, Galway, Tyrone, Cork found out in recent years, they’ll let you play for 30/40/50 mins. But they have the capability to up it and blow you away when it matters. And I have to say they’re an absolute joy to watch. The more teams that adopt their template, the better for Gaelic Football in the long run
Absolutely pathetic post youngfella. As Yew Tree said we are well versed ourselves as our Kerry in the dark arts. You’ve tunnel vision if all you see is the fouling done by Dublin. I am delighted they got the 5. Huge achievement. There is no amount of money in the world that can buy what they have….a huge hunger year in year out and that is down to each person taking ownership of the next ball. Then the next ball. Their work rate is just incredible. It suits a lot of counties to throw out the advantages card but imo the biggest advantage they have is Jim Gavin and Stephen Ckuxton both of whom look set to walk now so there is hope for us next year.
What an amazing team Dublin have been over the past 8 years. Worthy champions for the 5th year in a row. They have written themselves into the chapters of football immortality and thankfully we’ve been around to witness it. When you look at the age profile of that Dublin team there are several more All Irelands in them. Moaners get used to it !
What about the 12 in a row for Dublin? then that would equal the number of steps Murchen took between his bounce just outside the D and kicking the ball right on the edge of the penalty box. A distance according to the line markings of 20m on the button.
Its breaks like these that have made the path to the 5 in a row a lot easier. This has become accepted as the norm so much so that the Sunday game panel dont even mention it anymore ( Or maybe they like their SG gigs and dont want the p45 ) Watching how Dublin have stretched rules like this has defo made me change how I coach the young ones. Get posession then I tell them to take a “Dublin Bounce”. ie Ball in hand, Swing your arm up and around like tarzan and it looks like you bouncing the ball but in fact your taking at least 10 steps in the process. If I see some one taking 4 steps between solos I pull them on it and tell them min of 8 steps around here if you want to get away from your marker. Murchen ran from just inside his own half to the edge of the penalty box with 2 bounces and 1 solo. ONE solo, and a bounce either side of it. What size shoe is that guy wearing?
In fairness which of our lads has done remotely as cutting an interview as Mannion did there over the summer? McCaffrey and MDMA seem like grand lads aswel with plenty going on besides football. They may get plenty of advantages but at the same time at least 5 of them are good enough to play inter county hurling. How outrageously talented do you have to be to be able to cut it at the top level in two separate sports?
Gavin’s biggest feat is that he has kept them all grounded for all those years. Not easy with a bunch of sportsmen of any type.
Congrats to the Dubs. The five in a row consists of two defeats each for Kerry and Mayo and a total mismatch with Tyrone. It was inevitable Dublin would win after Kerry missed their chance in the drawn game. Dublin by far the greatest team to play the game. Spillane and co will be choking on their cornflakes this morning and will continue to spout about the fantastic young Kerry team and how well they performed. Who will be the first Dub with nine Celtic Crosses to shut Pateen up?The Kerry smugness bubble has been well and truly burst. Chokers!! They must have thought they were playing Mayo in the first half with all the high ball sent in to Clifford. Their shooting in the second half was atrocious. They got away with definite fouls in the first half as the ref did his best to show how neutral he was. We would not have got such favorable calls as we are not part of the ‘aristocracy’. Hopefully Gavin will take over Carlow next year and work another miracle there. Mayo’s next big game is against the Underdogs in October. Should be a bit of craic. As always I’m looking forward to next year and the FBD to get things rolling. If we don’t win Sam next year it really doesn’t matter to me who wins it as long as it’s not Kerry!
I have said it before on here that I dont particularly like the Dublin and why would I ? I’m a Mayo man who like many others have suffered many heartbreaking defeats to them. However that said I do respect what they have achieved and congratulate them on that .
I was lucky enough to be sitting in the lower Cusack with my brother and I look forward to sharing my experience of the day to my son day when he is older .
That kerry team will win 3 or 4 all irelands across the next decade, of that there is no doubt. They are a very young side
That first half of football last night was incredible, one of the best I’ve seen.for all the whinging about modern football i don’t think the skill level has ever been higher
There is a genuine nationwide discussion to be had about some of the unfair advantages dublin are getting, finances, croker as home venue etc but today is not the day for it. They are great champions and should be acknowledged for it
Regardless of what way you look at it, a testament to the dedication and resilience of a bunch of players, many if whom are at an age, where there are other influences in their lives; work careers, relationships, children etc.
I’m glad they won the foive, not least the see Tomas squirm on the Sunday Game…trying his best to put the case for a few of his men, while not on the panel’s team of year, then definitely, to be nailed on All- Stars.. It was amusing to hear the legendary dry-witted O’Rourke’s quip to Des – “let’s throw him a bone…”
Congrats to all the Dublin supporters and especially those who regularly contribute here. That was a truly remarkably performance. Like most other committed GAA people, we need to see their domination broken but there were just sublime yesterday. Of course I’m envious but I wouldn’t trade my colours and seat in the gaelic grounds or mchale park or wherever it might be following our own great county for any number of x in a rows following another. For today Dublin take a bow. The video of that game should be a weekly study for every club team and most especially every top tier county team in how the game is now played at the very highest level. Yes there are a few old fashioned dark tricks coming back into the game like that lay off and then stall to block the opponent but most particularly not a wide in the game is really a master class. For us as WJ says 2020 starts the dream again.
Seems like the hill was not for the faint hearted after yesterdays game….both at it!!!
Well done to Dublin. Money can’t buy that level of forward play/shooting that Dublin possess in Mannion, Kilkenny Callaghan etc.
As a county we should be looking at what Kerry are doing to close the gap. They have similar population, earning potential, football mad etc. Yet they are years ahead with their Centre of Excellence, underage development structure, schools development, development squads etc. Kerry started yesterday in the forwards with two players u20 and another player u21. Only a matter of time before they win Sam back.
Congratulations to the Dubs, yesterday demonstrated that they are an excellent team. Kerry certainly have some classy forwards but but currently do not have the physicality and athleticism to go toe to toe with a fully firing Dubs for the full match.
I do not buy that this is based on money, lets see what happens when Cluxton and Gavin leave, I believe that they (and maybe a few more) really set the standards. No doubt that they will be there or thereabouts but it will not take much of a drop to get caught out in the future in a tight competitive match.
Thanks very much evergreenandred and also Richardmgd your very kind comments are appreciated and please God the good Mayo men are back next year with some new warriors to replace Andy and Ger. ..both amazing players
Martin the Dub
Listen in sport it is customary to congratulate the victors and commiserate with the losers but that doesn’t mean it cannot be done without some balanced analysis and comparisons with different eras and teams is pretty pointless unless you are willing to examine and critique the circumstances which have developed and delivered this team.
Dublin have some great athletes and sportsmen and I was delighted to see Bernard Brogan make the 26 whilst disappointed he did not get a run near the end when Jim Gavin was handing out the cameo appearances.
The toughest thing Dublin have achieved for the 5 in a row is keeping the players engaged and enthused as that was and still is the biggest threat to them winning this AI and the next series of AI’s.
Brogan, O’Gara and maybe one or two others will retire but they still have a rich vein of talent coming through the system with Conor McHugh (2014 U21 player of the future with multiple AI titles at all levels (his Dad is a Swinford man)) not even getting a look in to the 26.
I don’t see any reason why Jim Gavin would want to retire and give up such a good thing as that might slay the myth of “Esprit de corps” and expose the real truth of financial doping aligned with the other advantages Dublin have.
The next team to beat Dublin in the All Ireland series will be one that through great endeavour and no shortage of skill catches them off guard and has the guile to execute and take advantage of that opportunity.
But that is just pure chance and the competition needs something more that that, drastic action is required by the men in suits and that doesn’t look likely with Horan looking like he was going to have a baby as he exalted on new chapters in GAA history being written before handing SAM to Cluxton.
It is telling and yet sad to see supporters seek solace and comfort in the fact the Mayo have been the only team to really push Dublin to the limit of the last 10 years but that carrot wont do for the next generation of players Mayo need to inspire.
Glad to see Brolly off the telly but it is true what he said …. there is Dublin and everybody else is then playing for second place.
Decent article below
_ Well done to Dublin they have their 5 in a row and have played plenty of top class football over the last 5 years.
– The goal knocked the stuffing out of Kerry and they started to panic in front of the posts as the game went on.
– It was inevitable all those years ago that once team sponsorship was allowed by the GAA that the big counties would gain the most.
– You would imagine that Cluxton, Philly MDMA, OGara, Brogan, Andrews and Kevin Mc will retire. Gavin could very well do the same as he has a demanding job. That is why 2020 could be different.
– As I said before the GAA has big decisions and big changes to make and the sooner the better.
Best article I have read on the subject this far, guffawing on the relative brilliance of Dublin does not hide the facts even if one’s head is remains buried in the sand.
As an exiled sunshine supporter I am off back down the air raid shelter with my tinned foods and beef jerky until the weather is more clement.
I would also like to congratulate Dublin. You could see what it meant to players at the final whistle and also to Jim Gavin who smiled and smiled. It seemed like a great relief to the players.
Richardmgd, I love the sentiments in your post especially when you say:
“Of course I’m envious but I wouldn’t trade my colours and seat in the gaelic grounds or mchale park or wherever it might be following our own great county for any number of x in a rows following another.”
You’ve got to the heart of something there. We love our team and all the things and journeys we’ve made as a county.
We would dearly love our own day in the sun but we must keep the faith. What we have achieved since 2011 (even since 1989) has been tremendous. We’ve built substance into our team and approach. Let’s hope the movement continues and that some of our warriors who have hung up the playing boots will pool their passion, knowledge, experience and skill into coaching our current and future players.
Dubs, I hope ye thoroughly enjoy the celebrations- days like these are very special. Kerry, relish the achievement and skill of your young team, several of whom I really admire. Mayo people, let’s hibernate and recharge in the wilds of our county (whether there or metaphorically from another place) and set off again in the New Year. Thanks to WJ and to you all for your company on the journey this year. Maigh Eo abú.
Seemed highly unlikely that Rochford would be willing to accept a half baked idea of some sort of shared management arrangement with Joyce & Divilly.
I seen that video clip with the Voilence from the Hill yesterday… One Big Blue Clad middle aged man who obsiously assaulted a young Kerry Supporter is easily identifable…. I think he should be charged with assault…. Kerry Supporter’s and every other County Supporter’s are equally entitled to be in the Hill as anyone else.. I was in the Hill for the 2013 All Ireland Final, the Hill is divided into 3 sections, my ticket and several other Mayo Supporter’s were for the middle section, but we were herded into the corners Regardless of our protestations, by steward’s with an Anti Mayo agressive demeanor…. and I was told by one that if I didn’t go to the Cusack Stand side of the Hill even tough my ticket was for the middle that I wouldn’t get in to the All Ireland Final at all, the middle section was reserved for Dublin Supporter’s Regardless if they were supposed to be in the corner or not (Most Mayo Supporter’s were in early because of our Minors competing in the Minor Final)while I didn’t witness any physical voilence on that particular day 2013, it certainly came close to it, where I was…. The majority of the Dub’s’ are OK same as other counties, and every County has a few amadans as well ,but a not insignificant Number who populate the Hill seem to be of the believe that Hill 16 is Dublin Only, behave agressivly towards fan’s of other counties, wheather Croke Park is masqrading as a Neutral Venue or Not….It was sure to be an uncomfortable evening entertainment for the handful of Young Kerry Supporter’s who were entitled to be there yesterday… Another serious matter for President John Horan to address…
Galway take on Dublin in Ladies football this afternoon. Dublin are a very well coached team, so Galway have it all to do..
It’s great to see the ladies camogie and football getting such rominence and support. It would be great for Connacht if we could brook another AI trophy at Athlone.
All Mayo support gratefully welcome…
Congratulations to Dublin ,a fantastic achievement,well played to Kerry but they were second best for a long time yesterday,I don’t expect us to reach a final for a few years I am afraid
This is why I hate to see the Dubs win, its because of that bad element that you will find in the Hill, fair play to the Kerry supporters for standing up to some of those thugs.
Most counties are good winners but for me some of the Dubs don’t fit this category.
The usual shite I have heard, Hill 16 is Dublin only, the bad type of soccer chant, the dirty insults at opposition players and the referee etc.
I for one am not delighted to see the 5 in a row.
Some day we long lived Mayo true supporters will see the win.
Was that Michael Healy Raes young fellas at it again after a few pints of the black stuff?
Lets hope that article is true, Rochford would have the smarts to win an AI with that Galway squad. Staying in Donegal suits us fine to be honest. If its a case that Galway county board went for PJ over Rochford, then they’ve shot themselves in both feet.
Dublin Ladies won a 3 in a Row today… Just another exceptional Team, like their Male equivalent in Dublin. Exceptional once in a generation talent…. Coincidence Absolutely, but Money has Absolutely nothing to do with it, nor has home Venue either, that such success come’s after the GAA and the State pumping so many millions of OTHERS Money into the Capital, and AIG are all for Equality as well.. and if you believe that, there’s a man in Drumconda I must tell you all about, who won all that money he had in his safe on the horse’s… I heard that one of the Horse’s was called ‘Forgive and Forget’…
Success creates the interest and the will to participate, then the money develops the talent that comes through which is inevitable given the huge population. That’s the way I simply see it.
The only thing that will stop them is that it will become meaningless as there’ll be little competition. Then other teams may gain some strength.
5 in a row is some achievement. Sadly though I think it could be 6 or 7 or 8 as there seems to be little in the way of teams that can live with this Blue machine in Croke Park.
I also hate the way they are so clinical in closing out the game and passing the ball over and back killing all the atmosphere.
Last complaint is about the goal. He caught that ball on his own 65 and ran abut 70 metres with only 2 hops and 1 solo. an average of around 12 steps between each movement. no wonder they couldn’t catch him.
Its time to either remove the steps rule from the GAA book as no ref heeds it and no one raises it at national level except as a secondary reference in passing
True JPM. Its extremely low on the hierarchy of offences.
@Liberal role in the tie, I think that you will find that first huge money from Dublin came in the Naughties, both from GAA and State… success that came later in this Decade, was paid for by the whole of Ireland, way back in Celtic Tiger, The man from Drumconda who started the ball rolling won all the money on horse’s, he was a True Blue Dub he read the News of the World in a Closet, because the safe was already full of money!….
Of course Murchin took steps, but the fact that Moran kept flailing at him meant that the advantage continued, without the necessity to adhere to the steps rule.
This was a case where Kerry’s defence, given all the coaching, lacked that singularly most important skill i.e. do not always be a slave to coaching, develop your core defensive instinct of timing the most “damage limiting” split-second, to abandon your man and, deal with the oncoming threat!!!
Unfortunately, this skill cannot be coached, the best advice players can be given, is to trust their instincts and, be fearless..
As regards the Hill16 issue, of course opposition supporters are entitled to go there. But, when your outnumbered 5/1 you can shout until you’re blue in the face, and you’ll still get drowned out..
And if your team is beaten, be prepared to suck up the venom – and shut your gob. Tbh, I think the Hill is a “loosers paradise”…
Anyone have a link to watch the Dublin v Mayo Semi Final this year???
First post but a regular Dublin reader of this blog for several seasons now. Have enjoyed following the comments & exchanges here: a great reflection of the passion and commitment for which Mayo football is rightly known. Nice to see so many fair and gracious comments too about Dublin’s historic achievement: no one pushed us harder or brought our Dubs closer to the edge over this five year run than Mayo, and well we know it. Well done to Willie Joe and all involved with the blog: I look forward to checking in again next season when I have no doubt that Mayo, like ourselves, will be there at the business end of it!
@Man of Aran,,, no problem with Dub’s ‘shouting for Dublin in the Hill 16 …..or anyone shouting for their home County at any Ground. What is horrendous,is insulting Opposition fan’s, being physically agressive or downright assault, which is what happened yesterday from what I seen ….. The Camera dosent lie. …. Some a minority of so called Dublin Fan’s are a disgrace, no County is without a few Unfortunately…. But where else would you get a group of Dublin Fan’s travel to Omagh with a banner reading ‘Mayo are Shite’ no danger of any other group of so called Supporter’s in Ireland doing that….if it’s not safe for children to be in the Hill or any other terrace it’s past time to call out the certain minority of so called cowardly fan’s who think and behave as if they are above the law!
A classic case of judging a book by its cover perhaps?
23 hours ago
Was there some sort if row on the hill afterwards. I heard reports of bottles thrown etc
there looked to be a few Kerry lads upset with the loss – sadly they reacted and were at fault by throwing objects which is totally unacceptable.
Yeah saw the whole lot in fairness a group of young Kerry lads were the instigators and it was a pity really and left a sour taste leaving (as if it wasn’t bad enough!)
Read more: http://kerrygaa.proboards.com/thread/7071/kerry-dublin-ireland-final-2019?page=57#ixzz5zdAYDA5p
Well done Dublin. People question the resources that Dublin have but essentially the All Ireland County championship is unfair as far as resources is concerned. Compare Leitrim and Dublin. Or even compare Mayo and Leitrim. Essentially very few teams can win Sam and it would appear that Dublin will win most AIs in the foreseeable future given their their supreme resources that are growing year on year. I also thought that the practice end at the beginning of the game was tossed for but the Dubs always get the Hill end.
9 of the Dublin 26 were 31 or older
That a lot of backfill for any team.
I believe there’s a good window for Mayo
the next couple of years while we still have AOS/Keegan/Durcan/DOC still near peak but must sort out goalkeeper, FB line and bring some of the really talented fellas through like Irwin/Hanley/ODonoghue
Also need to think outside the box pushing Keegan an Durcan into the midfield half forward area and trying Diarmaid OConnor at Full forward
I would advise a read of Ewan Mc Kenna, one of the few sports journalists to observe through the fog and the bullshit and has the courage to tell it like it is. At the end of the day it’s up to the GAA heirachy to make decisions and if they’re happy with the status quo then so be it but spare us the false reverence for the ‘ greatest team of all time’ who has the dice loaded massively in their favour. As for ourselves, the reality is as Kevin MC Stay said today we’re starting at the bottom of Neiphin again, and that’s our reality folks.
Congratulations to Dublin on winning the AI.
The constant whine about resources seems more than a little hypocritical to me. Taking Connaught for the moment Mayo has far greater resources than Sligo or Leitrim. Why not set an example to all and ensure that all resources are spread evenly among the five counties? Probably not as it is easier to relish having these teams on the ‘handier’ side of the draw when going for a successful provincial campaign.
Let’s continue to whinge.
Pocaimora, I wouldn’t entirely agree with you there, Its not only up to the GAA hierarchy to make decisions. Ultimately the county boards have the power to make changes, at congress. The questions has to be asked why are county boards standing by and allowing the imbalance to continue? Why did the county board delegates vote in favour of the super 8s which clearly had the advantage towards Dublin in the form of two home games. Why didn’t they vote with Donegal when they tried to address this imbalance? and why did county delegates vote against making their voting at congress public?(which it should be). The county boards have the power to make changes, why isn’t this power being used?
There is an inescapable question that has to be answered or we are all tilting at windmills. For the fourth time in succession, the Dublin football team have put in a second-half performance that is of a different order to anything else in GAA, and I would suggest in any other field sport either. People are referencing poor Kerry shooting, laxity for the goal, etc., but we have seen this in each game with the opposition. Each of the Mayo, Tyrone and Kerry performances had the same profile, which is directly related to fatigue and nothing else. The problem is that Dublin showed not the slightest hint of any fatigue. This is particularly noticeable in the torque phase of movement which like a car is more fuel-absorbant – the initial burst, the quick turn, the bouncey step – forwards in defence twisting and diving to block with total spontaneity that none of the other teams had in the second half. The two guys who did the most of this sprint/stamina mix McCaffrey and Murchan, left the field with legs that gave out, but the cardio-vascular fitness is all the more remarkable for such an outcome. Commentators refer to hunger in such instances but you have to be wary of shallow / one-dimensional analysis in the entertainment business. Kerry had footballers every bit as good as Dublin, but it was the disparity in fitness that divided these two teams, and the rest of the best in the country. I also reference studies a few years ago that showed Gaelic Football at the top end of the league in cardio-vascular fitness demand as it was back then, so I question whether this level of such fitness is seen in any other rough-and-tumble field sport. It is possible that Dublin have progressed a training-recovery-nutrition-conditioning regime that is leading the way in sport in general, and they certainly do everything right and as good as it can be done throughout the team. We do not have to reference anything sinister to draw an inescapable conclusion that talking about dreaming in Mayo or these other counties for next year is delusional until the glaring and decisive disparity in fitness is understood and addressed.
Not sure what you’re whingeing about Berry. Sligo have received more in coaching/games development grants directly from Croke Park between the years of 2007 and 2018, and both have received more than Mayo have when you cut it by registered player or overall population.
Between those years quoted, Sligo received 720,140, Mayo 718,780 and Leitrim 688,521.
Seems quite equitable in terms of amounts over an 11 year period, don’t you think?.
I don’t usually keep a close eye on the goings on in our National Parliament and I’m well aware this is a GAA blog, but here’s a funny thing. In 1993 the Local Government Dublin Act was passed and came into force in January 1994, on that day and I quote, ‘ the county known as Dublin ceased to exist anymore’, in it’s place they created the following, County Fingal, county council meets in Swords. County South Dublin, county council meets in County Hall in Tallagh. County Dunlaoire Rathdown, county council meet in Dunlaoire. Then in the middle straddling the Liffey they created the entity known as the City of Dublin which replaced Dublin Corporation and they meet in City Hall on Dame St. All these new counties have the same powers and responsibilities as any other established county throughout Ireland. So why were these changes made, well the answer is simple, population and how best to manage it. When the GAA was set up Dublin had about 10% of the population of Ireland, now Dublin’s percentage is getting close to 30%, so it has grown from just over 340,000 to 1.300,000, that’s some growth. So should the GAA do likewise and redraw the lines, I don’t like the words split up as it sounds like Dublin are getting punished for their success. Also if County Dublin is no longer a legal entity who have they been representing.
For a while County Fingal were competing in the hurling independent of Dublin, though I never heard them called by County Fingal which is their name, it was always just Fingal. They didn’t compete for the McCarthy cup, but one of the other competitions and they did alright, so how would County Fingal do in football, well the total population is 290,000, that would leave them as quite a big county………more to follow shortly!
First thing’s first, congratulations to the Dubs (and indeed some of their balanced posters here, such as Martin the Dub, Blue Sky and Jaden) on their historic achievement. Winning the five in a row marks them out as the GOAT and looking at the age profiles of their key players (Kilkenny, McCaffrey, Mannion, McCarthy, Rock, O’Callaghan etc.) it seems that they are going nowhere. The 6, 7, or 8 in a row is a real possibility before this team sails off into the sunset. This is before we consider the likes of Archer coming through to the senior ranks, and that the likes of Conor McHugh, Cormac Costello, Ryan Basquel etc. would probably walk into many county senior sides round the country.
As for us, we are rebuilding now and winning back Nestor needs to be the priority next year. Forget about Sam, it’s embarrassing that we haven’t won a Connacht senior title since 2015. If we want to compete against the top sides (both of whom hammered us by ten points last term) then we need to avoid the desperate struggles through the qualifiers that have defined the last several seasons.
There’s plenty to be said about the inequalities that exist in gaelic sports, which are widening rather than narrowing the gaps between the elite and the rest. The Dubs have just won the men’s and women’s senior All-Ireland football titles for the third year in a row, something that seemed an impossibility before they were flooded with cash by the GAA and state bodies. However, this is also an argument for another day.
As for Kerry, I did feel that tactically they missed a trick with the high ball into the square. I think Geaney only won one of the dozen or so balls that they floated in there. Their forwards also started panicking in the second half and refused a few easy points in search of goals (something we also did in the semi-final).
They do genuinely have star quality up the field though, and will probably sneak an All-Ireland if the Dubs have an off-season. The rest of us may be feeding off the scraps I’m afraid…
Here’s the more to follow. The population of County South Dublin is 278.000, again this would make a huge county on it’s own. County Dunlaoire Rathdown’s population comes in at 210.000, this is the smallest, but again a very viable mass of people compared to most other counties. Then finally, there’s the City of Dublin, it’s 450.000, as big as Cork, so well able to stand on it’s own.
So how would all this be organised, well Leinster have the biggest number of counties, so Dublin could could be turned into a province, all on it’s own, as four counties is a bit small, an international element could be added just like in Connacht. Europe, Middle East, Australia and Asia could be added for the championship, this would round it up nicely to eight. The home counties could have their first match abroad and it would be a great advertisement for the GAA game of football and Irish tourism. Sponsorship could be raised for the trips for tourism purposes. For the National League, the four home Counties could do a series of double headers in Croke Park in a round robin. And numbers one to four could slot into the corresponding league divisions. As cream always floats to the top, after two or three years they would find their own level. This would leave each division with nine counties, so more games for each county and the GAA of course. The number of province’s at five is very fitting. As ancient had five, Meath was the fifth one as it was the capital of Ireland. So it’s quite fitting that Dublin, which now is the modern capital of Ireland, becomes the fifth province with four counties of it’s own. They should be well able to compete for honours when you consider their respective populations.
While much has been made lately about all the money Dublin get, E4.5 million from the government, E17 million from the GAA central funds and a other E4 million from a sponsorship deal with AIG. Also fund raising, at club level and above and lastly club registration. I don’t have euro amounts for these last four, but with the club count for Dublin as a whole at 120 clubs approx, some of which are very big, eg Cula has approx 1.500 members and there are much bigger clubs then that. Dublin have 80 approx full time trainers that cover the 120 clubs, compare this with say Roscommon, they have 2 trainers for 50 approx clubs. There is a big ratio differential there.
Now if we go back to the three counties and the City of Dublin, as it stands, clubs in Dublin are getting, in addition to all the above monies, grants and pitches for use from the county councils. In the new set up of the province of Dublin all this could be kept going to help the new system to settle in and also new streams of income could be explored, eg Tourism Ireland as there would be an international dimension and this would be surely a benefit for Dublin.
Is all this a possible template for the future, who’s to say, Congress maybe. I’ll leave it all there.
@Rapparee: It seems to me to be all but impossible for teams on the West of Ireland to close the fitness gaps on the Dubs when you consider the massive recovery advantages that they enjoy. During the hard winter slogs of training, many of our lads do a seven hour round trip to get to a training session in Castlebar; this cannot be compared with a short hike across Dublin city centre, sufficient to get home in time for Coronation Street.
Add in playing of their games at home and it seems unlikely that we will be able to match their fitness levels unless in future all of our panel consent to living no further away than Galway (an impossibility due to economic factors).
First – Well done Dublin. Briliant team and worthy champions.
Interesting comments by Rapparee about re fitness level. I did think the same in last 15 Mins. Given the pace of the game the multiple sprints being made by O’Callaghan, McCarchy, Fenton in last 10 mins were remarkable.
It was a really great game of football and first half was so enjoyable to watch. The only complaint is that when Dublin (or any team) play ‘keep ball’ it sucked the life out of the game in the second half.
Could a 10 possessions rule before a shot on goal be put in to place?. No doubt there will be complaints that it would put too much pressure on the ref but it would really transform the game if practical to implement. Obviously would need clear definition and trialling. The 2 mins of keep ball repeated 5-6 times when a team is 4/5 points up really kills a game. No critisism of Dublin, it’s what professional, well drilled teams do but it’s not good to watch.
Same in Rugby by the way. There should be a limit on the number of pick&gos allowed as the last 5 mins of game now just become a borefest.
First half was superb. I felt when Dublin got the goal – which should never have been allowed due to 12 steps so not sure I would characterise it as a sensational goal – the game never recovered. It was the 3rd time Kerry were forced to try and come back from sizeable deficit in the 2 games I think it just broke them even though they got back to 1 point again at one stage. Their shot selection and shooting was very poor in second half. Also baffled by their Dublin kick out strategy – yes they got caught for goal with high press in first leg but that was a low percentage likelihood and they didn’t cause cluxton any problems in replay – he simply passed it to his options on right or left on sideline every time….think that was a huge mistake. O Brien didn’t show composure for goal chance – Geaney was the obvious pass option for simple palm into net….
Dublin were unbelievably clinical thought – even by their own standards it was a hell of performance in terms of nothing from frees very few wides.
Kerry were somewhat unfortunate the Kilkenny had his best game in 2 years – clifford and geaney stepped up big time from drawn game but Dublin had 3 forwards did the same and that was ultimately the difference for me.
In the last five years Dublin have won two more All Ireland titles than Mayo have won in the last 132. It’s not just a problem of the Associations creation. In 2004 and 2006 Kerry beat us out the gate. In the nineties we were not good enough to finish the three finals we contested (one replay). We have to look for the answers here rather than just knock other teams achievements.
Dublin worthy champions and we can talk about funding and advantages til the cows come home but you can’t buy the kind of attitude those players have. You get nothing easy from Dublin.
Kerry were very one dimensional at times and for all the talk about their free scoring forwards, I wasn’t overly impressed with them over the two games. They frequently took the wrong option and some of their kicking was woeful. I can’t see them getting the same stick our lads get though even though we put up bigger scores against Dublin than what Kerry managed on Saturday.
Lotta things Mayo could do to narrow the gap if the CB had the resolve
We need to widen the net to get in better players and to improve the standard of the club championship. But this could easily be done by letting divisional teams play in Senior championship thus allowing for better players from Junior and Intermediate level to perform. also it would naturally push up the standard of the Senior Championship and therefore the standard as a whole.
Also the mentors and selectors need to identify potential county players earlier and where possible find them gainful employment at least in the province where they can progress their careers and play inter county at the same time without the massive drag on travel and resources up and down from Dublin. (Its no secret that Galway won the hurling all Ireland with the majority of their players living and working in the county). Surely there are jobs they could be organised for by people associated with the CB to help this.
I wont hold my breadth on any new initiatives from Mayo though !!
Instead of hearing about the constant moaning about Dublins resources , What are we in Mayo going to do about getting ourselves up to there standard.We need more coaches and volunteers in the clubs and schools for a start.Jim Gavin constantly talks about the huge amount of volunteering going on in Dublin Gaa clubs.
We need to be getting more of a return out of the populated clubs like Castlebar Mitchels, Ballina Stephenites, Westport and Claremorris with these clubs alone making up a big percentage of the Mayo population, a huge number of talented lads in these clubs dropout after Minor cause they can’t break in to the Senior team as quick as in a rural club where thay have smaller numbers.A town like Castlebar you wonder does it require a second Gaa club with a population of a 11 thousand, Killarney in Kerry has 4 clubs Dr Crokes ,The Legion, Fossa, and Spa.
We also don’t coach kicking enough in Mayo, most club games at underage and Senior levels in Mayo has way too much handpassing and overuse of the solo.I was talking to someone recently that went to school in St Brendans Killarney, the school David Clifford recently won a Hogan cup and they said that all the teams training there put a huge part of there training into just kickpassing and shooting and developing there weaker foot.
@Mike, I attended the replayed final, not a great final, both teams sat back and defended when opposition had possession. Only a few Kerry players really believed that they could win, Geaney, Murphy and Sean O Se, alot of their players just didn’t have the stomach for the battle, the Dublin goal was a classic example of the huge hole right through the defence, this was a problem area for Kerry since the league final.
Kerry focused too much on defending and counter attacking, such a ploy will never beat the Dubs, they played a sweeper and that didn’t work.
From where I was sitting I didn’t see many hard crunching tackles, maybe one or two shoulders in the full game. Jack Barry was totally anonymous as was their 2 wing forwards
TH Castlebar already has a second club– Breaffy, same parish.
Does the Breaffy border come in around the town boundaries?? I would like to see the numbers that Castlebar Mitchels have at Under 10 and how many they end up with they year after Minor at Senior level .I would say theres a lot of players lost.
Castlebar already has Mitchels and Breaffy. Ballintubber, Parke K/C and Islandeady encroach very close to the town as well. It doesn’t need another club.
Westport will probably need a 2nd club in the future. It has a big catchment area going right out to Louisburgh. Westport have a strong B and C team this year at adult level which shows the numbers there.
Breaffy isn’t really in Castlebar, lads. None (or almost none) of the lads from town play with Breaffy as a rule and vice-versa.
Mitchels’ problem up til recently was a dramatic fall-off from the underage teams (which are usually successful) to a point where a lot of blow-ins would be playing for the senior team. There isn’t the same sense of closeness in a club with several hundred members as with a small village team where everyone knows each other.
There is also a lot more competition in the town than a lot of places, with soccer, rugby, tennis, swimming, athletics clubs locally.
Seems to me a lot of people are moving in from the countryside if anything, which might make some rural clubs less viable.
@TH: In my experience there’s a huge amount of players lost after U-16 level, you’ll usually have enough for two teams up til minor, then the pressures of Leaving Cert and college kick in and you’ll just aboot have enough for one squad.
We are around the same level as Donegal Tyrone Galway. All having a similar pick of players.
Maybe we are around precisely the level we’re able to be at.
A David Clifford is created through personal obsession with practice. A club can’t create that.
I think we are a good bit above all of these. In fact very close to Dublin and Kerry. We were savaged by major injuries this year. Neither Killarney or Croke Park are reflective of where we are at in truth because of this. There is potential improvement to come in 2020.
Then again there is improvement to come in 2020 for everyone else as well of course.
In any case 2019 is gone now and all that matters is 2020.
There will be great days ahead. I really enjoyed the last years going through the qualifers as its great excitement but to be honest enough is enough now. We need to win Connacht in 2020 .
We wont challenge Kerry or Dublin until our shooting and forward play dramatically improves.Remember both Kerry and Dublin beat us by 10 points each this year.I am still not convinced that there are enough players under 23 coming through good enough to challenge with Dublin and Kerry.Horan needs to bring in a Forward and kicking coach into the Mayo set up, maybe Ciaran McDonald, Alan Dillon or Kevin O’Neill.Our shooting is really really poor, we can dominate possession in games and make loads of turnovers but when it comes to putting the ball over we are just not good enough.Roscommon have actually better scoring forwards than Mayo at the moment.We kicked 17 wides against Roscommon in June.Missed a simple 13 yard free to draw the game, and we moan about Dublins resources.James Carr, Darren Coen and Cillian O’Connor are probably our best inside forwards at present yet they made no real impression against Kerry in the Super 8s in July.I think Liam Irwin, Neil Douglas, Jack Reilly and Brian Reape could be all worth trying as there next best inside scoring forwards in the County.It was disappointing not to see Reape and Conor Diskin get much game time during the year, but they must not be performing in training.
Well done Dubs – no arguments about greatness.
My first final overseas – watched it in O’Neills on the Euston Road. It took its place among the nations of the earth – horse racing, Norwich v City, and the Ashes all showing in various parts of the lounge, sorry saloon. Absolutely devoid of atmosphere. Guy beside me didn’t seem to have a clue what it was about. Met a Kerryman at the end, who took it well I must say.
Dublin are beatable I feel, but we will really have to up it. You are right TH, our forwards need to improve 10 to 15% maybe more. But, that’s doable, and we have a few guys I feel who could be explosive. But, saying it is one thing a doing it another. And, don’t write off our oldies. Maybe Boyler is going to take a leaf out of Andy’s book – he was absolutely outstanding this year and we need that talent and mentality.
Roll on the latter stages of the county championship and roll on 2020.
Congrats dubs on 5 in a row fantastic football.n do what you have too get over line….we had our chances n didt take them so no point crying over spilled milk….we will try again nx year but it’s absolute vital we win connacht and not so much injuries either to key players, I am confident we will give it a good lash ….
How Tyrone, Donegal and Galway ahead of us in betting for Sam beyond me….good league, blooding players n connacht title a must…
Agree with TH above. Andy is the only forward we have produced in last few years who consistently performed at the very top level. Our forward play has to improve. We started against Dublin with two midfielders making up Six of our forwards. Hopefully some of the players mentioned who are playing well for their clubs will step up to the mark. If Darren Coen can improve his S and C – he is the sort of forward that can 3-4 points from play with very little fuss.
I just want to say congrats to Dublin on the 5 in a row – an historic achievement. Can’t wait for Mayo to get another crack at them in 2020. I hope the GAA see sense and dispense with the nonsense that is the super 8s and allow more lead in time to semi finals and finals – it might give the rest of us a better chance to regroup.
Dublin must be congratulated on this achievement. They are an unbelievable unit, and whats remarkable is, they play every game essentially the same way, never deviating from the plan, usually end up scoring ~18/19 times in a clutch game! Its not rocket science but they are very disciplined and this has proved to be the winning formula. Its likely to continue for at least another year, or for as long as they are hungry.
Congrats to Dublin men & women teams – both expect to win & usually do. However Kerry gifted them their goal after restart & re-enforced in them that winning expectation. Admittedly that gift had to be translated into a goal but in that too, their luck continued, as the scorer over carried, owing to his endeavours to set himself up for his right foot, as he may be only right-footed. In addition the Kerry forward O’Brien showed the composure of a typical back, when ballooning the ball straight at Cluxton. ( a great save in GAA land) The present Dublin team is superb at exploiting the self-inflicted mistakes of opponents & no doubt will continue to do so until such time as opponents concentrate for the full duration of matches. Its those seemingly innocuous lapses that re-enforce Dublin’s image of invinceability when in fact it’s pure carelessness by opponents but I wouldn’t expect the media to have that awareness. Kerry blew it on two occasions so it’s all to play for in 2020.
RTE are reporting this evening that Tier Two football championship has moved one step closer to be introduced for next year’s Championship as announced by the GAA. A special meeting is to go ahead in Cork in two weeks time to discuss the proposal and also up for discussion are the new rules which were trialed in the National League last year, the only one not to go forward is the side line free where the ball couldn’t be kicked backwards.
The Provincial Championships would go ahead as normal. Then only teams from the top divisions would go forward to the Super 8’s, a play off on a knock out basis between the two lower divisions to be played off, with access to Croke Park and advertising back up. The back door would only be two rounds then. That’s just the jist of it. Full details on RTE GAA sports section. Change is in the air!
is it true tha S .ROCHFORD is staying with donegal , i hope that report is true for our sake.
There already are at least two tiers !
Dublin – then the rest
Splitting into two official tiers will do nothing to resolve the issues and is just window dressing, tip toeing round the elephant in the room..
There appears to be zero appetite to split Dublin in 2 or 4 along the lines as outlined above as that would most likely make the marketing package much lesS attractive for major corporate sponsors such as AIG and other multinationals. The men in the business suits Horan, Costello etc know where their bread is buttered and will stave off that until it is forced upon them which will be an inevitable conclusion when they reach 6,7 or possibly 8 in a row.
Given an initial drawn final and then a replay which on the face of it seemed competitive up to half time, plus 2 full houses at Croke Park affords them the opportunity to point to the seemingly competitive nature and gloss over the statistics of Dublins winning margins in the Championship over the years, falling attendances and push that Dublin split down the road for another few years with some fluffy window dressing such as a 2 tier system.
What should be agitated for immediately is a fair, even redistribution of the resources, wealth and funding as inadvertently proposed by “Berry” above. This is clearly a crazily unjustifiable situation and should not be allowed to continue and would be the first place to start after all it is not Dublin’s money it is the money of the “GAA Community” as they like to say and wealth in a sustainable community should be distributed evenly.
With regards to “moaning” about Dublin’s advantages, if its moaning to call out the facts rather than accept the status quo like a serf to the metropolitan elite then I choose to moan.
With regards to the kind of attitude of the Dublin players I would suggest you need look no further than within ones own county for exemplary attitude in role models such as Tom Parsons, Andy Moran, Chris Barrett etc. etc. and whilst it is correct to say that kind of attitude cannot be bought with finance, it is however irrefutable that finance allows you to create better conditions, support, nutritionists, coaches and environment to enable those players deliver better outcomes in performance.
With regards to the fitness levels of the Dublin squad as stated above the levels of support, finance and structure in Dublin allow them to operate on as near a professional level without being professional in name only, so if you are comparing the outcomes of two groups of athletes with one group preparing on a professional basis, the other on an amateur basis then it is inevitable that the measurement and outcomes (performance based on fitness levels) should be higher for the professional group.
The levels of preparation, nutrition, sleep, recovery taking Dublin as the base measure just cannot be replicated by the likes of Mayo or Kerry.
Looking at the drawn game after playing 40 mins with 14 players it was clear that Dublin had the last 5 shots (1 scored) and had Kerry harassed into repeated turn overs in their own half with Kerry failing to get a shot off in the last 15 minutes.
In the replay in the final 15 minutes Kerry players were out on their feet with players cramping and visibly struggling whilst Dublin played containment and possession football bringing on the “veterans” for cameo roles.
That’s simply down to talented individuals with available resources, preparation, structures all of which is supported by an abundance of finance and could not be sustained without finance, its not because they have better attitudes.
The ultimate eventual outcome will be a split of Dublin into four but given the replay and 6 point winning margin that has been pushed off the agenda for now.
John Horan has been promising since he became president that he would provide a “clearer picture” on GAA funding but is yet to deliver any picture only bluster. It seems to me he is more interested in first desperately finding a suitable metric to deliver his own agenda before doing a review OR in reality he has decided on the outcome of a review before doing it and now just needs the method of collating the desired stats do deliver said desired outcome (arse over tit)
What needs to be agitated for at every available opportunity at every level is an immediate review of the finances and the distribution of GAA finances because as it currently stands, it is a redistribution of wealth from rural communities into the city at a grossly uneven and unfair level, it is theft and Mayo supporters above all who travel the length and breath of the country to GAA grounds handing over their hard earned Euros should be fed up. The reality is you are financing and supporting Dublin by proxy so at least you are all invested in the Blue Machine more than any other county. (I chuckled when I heard Yerra being interviewed after the drawing game say that 12.5K Kerry supporters had travelled to Croke Park)
As an exiled sunshine September supporter I have less skin in the game, but it doesn’t mean I cannot have a moan OR point out the facts as I prefer to say.
If nothing changes everything will stay the same and Dublin will continue to progress, improve and will most likely win the next 5 AI’s with only the potential for a slip up, lack of concentration, allowing one County that 1 in 5 chance to grasp that fleeting opportunity, Kerry fleetingly had it in the drawn match but let it slip.
Will other counties players be willing to commit to the huge sacrifices required to avail of and prepare for that all to fleeting opportunity?
Well said WMD, so much truth in what you outlined there, the imbalance is no longer something that can be ignored.
WMD if we took our chances in the 2013 ,2016 and 2017 finals against Dublin we could have won had 3 All Irelands by now.I remember Tomas O’Se saying Mayo don’t respect posession enough, they win so much ball but kick too many easy chances wide.
It had nothing to do with Dublins money in them 3 All Irelands.It was simple chances missed in front of goal.Watch them 3 games back and you will see money had nothing to do with it.A real example of Dublin is Paul Mannion and Con O’Callaghan improvement. Paul Mannion in 2016 would not have scored the points he scored in this years championship, I watched Con O’Callaghan against the Mayo Under 21s in 2016 All Ireland Semi final he was only above average from play,Seamus Cunniffe held him for most of the game,he was nowhere near the footballer he is now.But that came down to hard work on the training ground, not down to money which is constantly throwing at Dublin.
#WMD, Well said best post here on this Blog for a long time… Just for the record…Dublin are 4/7 favorite to make it 6 in Row, Kerry are at 10/1 second favorite, and we Mayo’ are 18/1 .. It’s now Dublin 5 in a row All Ireland titles, in fact if it hadn’t been for a Jim McGuiness’ Donegal masterclass in counter attack in the second half of the 2014 All Ireland Semifinal, we would now be taking about a 7 in a row…. and even that Day, Dublin should have been out of sight at half time, but they butchered a number of Goal chances…7 of the last 9 All Ireland titles, add in 5 League Title’s, 9 in a row Leinster Titles, in fact it’s 14 out of 15 of the last Leinster Titles..In the last 5 years 37, game’s unbeaten in the Championship, 29 of which were played in the Neutral Home Venue of Croke Park, only on 3 occasions have? Dublin even played any team in the Championship in their Home None Neutral Venue, once and with great fanfare, Dublin played Longford in Longford… But Dublin are very fond of playing in Neutral Venue’s, so they played Laois in the Neutral Venue of Nolan Park, Carlow in the Neutral O’Moore Park, Home of Laois, Wicklow in Neutral Navan… and in the last two years, in the final game of the Super Eight’s Dublin have played Tyrone in the Non Neutral Home Venue of Tyrone, Healy Park Omagh, however even that came with a caevat, because Dublin had already qualified for the All Ireland Semifinal at that stage, having won their two previous Super Eight’s game’s, one of which was played in Dublin’s Home Venue of Croke Park, and the other one would also have been played in the Neutral Venue of Croke Park…. Something isn’t exactly fair when you weight it all up… now TH what were you saying about Mayo missing their Chances V Dublin… Not strictly true, Actually, in 2016 and 2017 the three Match’s including the replay, Mayo’s conversion ratio of scoring chances was the highest recorded up to that point in All Ireland Final’s, except that Dublin’s was even marginally higher, and I think I would say that Dublin have improved even on that almost unbelievable stat last Saturday Evening…
Some really good thought provoking comments above on the non football advantages Dublin have and equally in a footballing sense how close we have come to beating them but for our own failings. So i think despite all their advantages Dublin can be beaten. The scenario next year suits Mayo perfectly, the focus will be on Kerry and the pressure. No excuses will be tolerated, it has to be the AI. But I think Mayo are a better team than Kerry, and with Horan continuing the re-build we have a great chance, provided we do one thing – win Connaught. That’s our immediate AI and total focus. Win that and it’s a super 8 group without Kerry and Dublin. Lose in Connaught and we’re in Sh*t again with no chance of toppling the dubs.
I have to say I am really looking forward to the double header in McHale park this Saturday. I am fed up to the teeth with the inter county game for the myriad of reasons mentioned on this blog and further afield. And I think this years attendance figures show I’m not the only one. I expect attendances to drop further next year. I encourage everyone to get out to the club championship games over the next few weeks, theres great entertainment to be got and all 3 grades should be competitive.
I don’t see how someone would think we are currently better than Kerry? What is the evidence?
We aren’t the team we were, retirements have happened and more will follow. Kerry hammered us by 10 points a few weeks ago, as did Dublin.
Targeting a Connacht title must be the aim for 2020 and giving youth championhsip game time. We are entering s translation period.
Whilst reminiscing over past years lost opportunities is a great Youtube time filler it is of little value when analysing the current malaise except to highlight from a base of 2013 as you point out (although you can go back further) that for whatever metric you choose the gap between Dublin and the rest is widening and not closing.
Personally I sat through the 96 final & replay and no doubt there are an awful lot of “what if’s” to keep one awake at night but as a great philosopher once said.
“If I had hindsight, I would be able to inspect my own piles”
I am certainly not saying that the disparity in finance is the only differentiator, or that Dublin do not have talented & dedicated players.
But what I am saying is that the central funding as distributed by the GAA is uneven, unfair, and unsustainable and if there is an appetite for reform then finance is a glaringly obvious place to start. Financial reforms are not based not based on history and tradition and therefore unpalatable to traditionalists.
I am also saying that finance and specifically the easy availability of that finance in Dublin has a formidable bearing on a County to be able to develop, sustain and attract players in all facets of the game from skills coaching, strength and conditioning through to personal development and wellbeing.
But if that is not the case then we had better advise Tim O’Leary, Terry Gallagher and others to cease and desist from their unnecessary, unwarranted, pointless and fruitless fundraising activities.
The next time you see your local athletics, GAA or whatever club out with the biscuit tin fundraising for better coaching, structure and facilities to develop young local talent, just walk on by and advise them their activities are unnecessary and the young fellas/girls will develop just as much chasing round their jumpers out the back field behind the mart.
Tell Chris Barrett that finance and funding has nothing to do with it after he has travelled the length and breadth of Ireland in a Championship week for games, training, recovery and then during the working week he searches for a sandwich with enough meat (protein) to sustain his incredible schedule. (read his Irish Times article and/or his GAA Hour interview)
Somebody in an earlier post said that with potential Dublin retirements there will be a window of opportunity for others but all the numbers show that from the base of 2013 the average age of the starting line-up is not increasing for this “once in a lifetime team” and for every retirement from Paul Flynn or Alan Brogan, younger, better coached, faster, stronger athletes are replacing the old. In line with this development Dublin’s winning margins are increasing and the ease with which they are winning in third gear with the hand break on should be alarming.
Let’s be honest Dublin played the whole second half on Sunday with 14.5 men, after replacing McCaffrey for Connolly (Jim’s vanity project) Connolly gave one exquisite pass which is in the locker and then proceeded to give the ball away at least 3 times whilst under no pressure and possibly should have picked up a black card, hardly a replacement for McCaffrey?
Dublin’s continuous rise is not simply down to desire, attitude or even population base alone, it is because Dublin have the easy availability of finance to support the structures necessary to develop and sustain these players. To say otherwise as John Horan repeatedly does is extremely disrespectful and patronising to the likes of Barrett, Moran, Parsons, Doherty and the others. (when I say easy finance remember Dublin don’t even bother to fund raise)
In 2016 Mayo are reported to have spent 1.6m on trying to achieve the dream, over 0.5 million of that expenditure was travel expenses, Dublin have little of that expense yet they have travel partners, sponsored cars for players etc. Mayo spent another circa 0.5 million on catering whilst again Dublin have catering partners and specialised prepared nutritionally balanced packaged food catered for individual players training plans throughout the year.
Mayo probably spend a vast resource on furnishing the debt on McHale Park another expense Dublin just don’t have. Then Mayo have to try and get a Centre of Excellence off the ground another expense Dublin just don’t have.
All the money that Dublin do not have to commit to these expenses can be distributed to other player development and support activities.
Then to add insult to the injury the GAA Central Council redistribute central funding from Mayo and other counties to support development and coaching in Dublin. If’s it’s all completely unrelated to the finance as some suggest then that’s brilliant and enlightening for me personally, but try and convince Horan and Costello of the point and to distribute the funding evenly to Mayo and other counties as they insist it is needed in Dublin for their development and coaching structures …. But needed for what, as we all know finance does not make a difference … right? Or does that just apply in Mayo, Cavan, Leitrim, Fermanagh etc. ?
It’s not just Mayo either, a previous poster suggested that this talented Kerry team would win 3 or 4 of the next 10 AI’s ….. really based on what was witnessed last Sunday or the league or what exactly?
Saying finance has nothing to do with it is like saying austerity imposed on Ireland by the IMF & ECB had nothing to do with falling living standards and Irish people just needed to go out and get a decent job the bunch of slackers!
Anyway a previous poster said there is a club championship double header at McHale Park this weekend, a venue I myself have not even graced since circa 1983 shortly before I headed for Holyhead.
Enjoy the Club Championship folks and thanks for providing this Soap Box for a part time, disgruntled, twisted and envious supporter like myself Willi Joe.
Perhaps someone can answer a question for me. I have chairde mayo ticket. Have for years now. I’ve emailed the season ticket office a number of times asking for a breakdown of where the money I paid goes? I have never received a satisfactory answer. Does anyone know if this money is ring fenced for mayo gaa or if it goes into a central funding pot?
September 16, 2019 at 6:31 pm
We wont challenge Kerry or Dublin until our shooting and forward play
we’ve conceded 14 goals in the last 7 championship matches against Dublin. So number 1 problem is our goalkeeper, full back line and lack of sweeper.
We’ve lost numerous matches because we can’t protect our goal properly.
We should be taking out videos of the Dubs and see what the Dubs do when someone get nears their goal, the player is either mobbed or fouled
agreed yew_tree, don’t know how anyone could have us above Kerry at the moment.
Since we beat them in 2017 they have completed overhaul of their team, they have 2 once in a lifetime players in Sean o’shea and clifford. We are pretty much looking at the same core of players for a long time now.
They have gone toe to toe with the dubs in first taste of AI finals for a lot of them and that will stand to them big time, if they can unearth a centerback out of somewhere they will win 3 or 4 all irelands in the next decade. However we are not 10 points a lesser team than them, certainly we have better individual backs than them and as we seen in league final if David Moran not there we can match them in midfield too. Certainly Murchan goal wouldnt have happened against us, Boyler would have took his head off.
Id say Dublin a clear number 1, then Kerry, Then a chasing pack of Mayo/Tyrone/Donegal/Galway all of whom could beat each other on a given day.
So what do we try to do to close the gap?
Billie Joe mentioned it before in columns but we need to start focusing on a culture of developing and improving marquee forwards, we can no longer look to Andy to bail us out so identify a few natural forwards round the county (James Carr being the main one that springs to mind) and look at coaching them so they are extremely efficient and able to put up big numbers consistently from play. Look at the improvements on Con o’callaghan in 2 years for example, he was a light raw inconsistent talent 2 years ago, now he is a beast. Virtually unplayable. That is the culture shift we need to look at.
I appreciate that is a lot easier said than done
Exactly…In this year’s Championship, Kerry are the Number Two Team, definitely well ahead of Mayo, if Donegal has scored one more point versus Kerry, we wouldn’t have made the Semifinal, ..Can’t see Kerry making the same mistakes, Team selection, Goalkeeper error, Wasteful shot selection, Substitions policy or lack of same, we made versus Roscommon…Of the chasing pack, Kerry are very Young…. Donegal are Young, however we deserved our win V Donegal in Castlebar, definitely our best performance in this year’s Championship… Tyrone are good but definitely need to improve further on their offensive game….. Armagh, who had just beaten the 2018 Ulster Champions by 9 point’s in Clones, are very good, we were lucky to beat them in McHale Park, doubt if we would have beaten them in Armagh… Home Venue a big advantage in a tight Match like that, could be Dark horse’s for an Ulster Title in 2020… Monaghan seems to have gone backwards this year, started off beating Dublin in the League, but that was a false dawn, Just a dreadful mistake by Roscommon Ultan Harney saw a gimme 21 yard free changed to a throw in, it resulted in a draw that day V Tyrone in the Hyde… and eventually Monaghan staying Up and the Rossies going down in the League…. Galway have definitely gone backwards this year, a good League, and Actually were going to the League Final on the final day of the regulation League instead of ourselves, but Tyrone roused themselves, helped by some clamatous Goalkeeper error by Galway, and We went to the League Final instead of Galway and finally won a Trophy in Croke Park.. Galway struggled to beat London, very poor V Sligo, who hadn’t managed to pick up a point in Div 3 of the League, Roscommon deserved to beat them coming back from 5 point’s down at half time to beat Galway in a monsoon in Salthill, what is it with Roscommon and bad weather, beat Mayo’ last May in similar conditions and their previous Connacht Title V Galway again ‘in a monsoon…Cork are not as good as most people are saying, especially Kerry, had only to beat Limerick and Laois to make the Super Eight’s, where they lost all 3 game’s, and Roscommon beat them in their final Super Eight’s Game in Páirc Up Roinn, will start 2020 in Div 3…on the positive their Minors U17’S and U20’S are current All Ireland Champions so hope for a few years time, don’t think that they will be a force next year….. A this moment I would put Dublin clearly at No 1,…2 Kerry,… 3 Mayo (League Title)…4 Donegal, …5 Tyrone…6 .. Armagh….7.. Roscommon. 8… Galway….9…Monaghan .10 Meath…11.Kildare …12 Cork….13..Clare….14.. Down…15 … Fermanagh… 16 Tipperary… The rest John Horan has ye in his sights for the second tier of the Championship, I’m afraid!
I didn’t say Mayo were currently above Kerry, What I said we have a better team. If we win Connaught, have a bit better luck injury wise ( which avoiding the back door will help with) we can take Kerry in the semifinals. Dublin are miles ahead of that Kerry team and not even the weight of 5 in a row could bridge the gap for Kerry. Kerry are overrated, talked up by their mob and long may it continue.
I’d tend to agree with you, Puckout. Imagine if we’d failed to beat a Dublin team playing with 14 men for 40 minutes and then lost by six in the replay how we’d have been belittled and ridiculed by all and sundry for such failure. Because it was Kerry they get a free pass but, like the rest of the chasing bunch (ourselves included) they’re a long way off that Dublin team.
@Willie Joe… You can add in ‘Missed a Penalty in the first game as well’ Cillian got lacerated by some in the media for hitting the post with a difficult free. . Galway seems to have an eternal reputation for fast open Football, despite absoutely no evidence of it in the last five years…. Late 1990’s and early Naughties, absoutely deserved reputation for good Football..Much of the Punditry is rubbish, repeated Cliches, but like the Ciaran Whelan led attack on Leroy a few years ago, your reputation can damage you in the Eye’s of the Officials… and we in Mayo are not good at setting the record straight… When will AOS ever get a free? Several of opposition Player’s should have been sent off down the last number of years, but apparently it’s always open season on AOS!
For anyone whose is interested primetime are doing a piece on gaa/Dublin funding tonight. Can’t see rte being too hard on the GAA but ewan MacKenna is meant to be on who won’t hold back!
On the same topic, Kevin McStay has an excellent piece in the Irish Times on how Dublin are operating at a different level from the rest of us. His conclusion is a depressing one, which I have to say I share. How many of us will even be bothered about the inter-county game in another ten years if this keeps up? https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/kevin-mcstay-if-dublin-win-six-will-the-gaa-see-it-as-a-problem-1.4020060.
WMD.. I’m a Dub.. Not fingal, not dublin city.. I’ve been on here saying population is the biggest issue for gaa.. So be careful what you wish for. We’ll end up with Dublin vikings v western warriors , midland mauraders v .Southern Kings, because splitting Dublin would be only one part of it. The counties like your beloved Mayo will join Longford in super clubs.. Populations is the biggest problem.. Yours are small and falling. East coast is large and growing You throw in a few false things along the winding post.. You reckon rural Ireland is pouring money into Dublin gaa…. Seriously.. Do you really believe that.. Mayo have been bringing the fans since 2012..the Dubs have been their cash cow for decades.. I’d suggest it’s the other way around.. Why did I pay a extra tenner plus more for program this all ireland final? Why is my season ticket going up year on year? Cork rebuilding a white elephant stadium, kildare co board flying in managers from kerry. Then going bust,(they are the biggest disappointment in gaa. Large population, very rich county, total mismanaged) watch wexford.. Davy and Galvin won’t be cheap..
What do Dublin bring to the table ?
If for no other reason than to shut up Darragh O Se then long may the Dublin dominance continue. For me that is a glorious side effect of Dublin’s five in a row. I have no beef with this Kerry team or Kerry people in general but the shower in the media and their disrespect for Mayo is enough for me to say ( until that disrespect changes ) Anyone But Kerry.
Their current team are an excellent bunch and their manager is fine but I can’t support their efforts when others of their kin ( many of them) are so ignorant and disrespectful towards us. It has been pointed out above how the narrative would be so much different if Mayo lost this final in those circumstances the first day. They are hypocrites.
I think Puckout is right. We are the second best team in Ireland. We screwed our chances through treating Roscommon with insufficient respect and we were unfortunate with injuries .We best Donegal who looked to be on a roll to the final ( and who had drawn a classic with Kerry ) .We won the league.
Dublin are so admirable in so many ways.They point to the possibilities in our game at county level. The fact that they are so much less successful at club level in football points to the different nature of their county set up. Kerry, by contrast , are highly successful at all club levels. So right there can be seen a glimpse of the difference between amateur and professional.
Dublin are innovating at a pace that is not yet fully appreciated. Kerry still don’t seem to fully understand this. It’s almost like they don’t believe it will continue.This is great for the game. Here are some examples .
Best known is Cluxton’s kickouts which changed the game forever. This alone makes comparisons to prior teams from prior eras futile.
The most important change ( and one I’ve been going on about for years ) is mental composure. Their composure is rock solid. This didn’t happen by chance. Everything is trained in them through the prism of composure. They play their own game. They adapt within and between games. But they never panic. They are always in control. You know what , if Mayo made only one change next year then training all our existing players to play composed would be BY FAR the most useful and effective thing we could do.And it would cost very little.
Professional footwork: Two examples in Brian Howard and Con O Callaghan. This is huge particularly when playing other elite teams. It buys you half a yard. Lee Keegan found this out to his cost.
Howard was being chased by four Kerrymen in the drawn game and they couldn’t get near him. It was comical. He is Fred Astaire.
Be grounded : Training is year round. Diet is year round. Stay professional.Stay humble. Be involved in your community. Don’t listen to the media.
Basic skills :are trained to an incredible level resulting in fewer errors. No wides until the 43’d minute of the five in a row final. Seriously ???
The relative lack of injuries in their ranks during this run is some kind of admirable record. They of course have great back up if injuries do occur. But this speaks to training differently.
Dublin’s confidence is of a different type. It is true belief in self and more importantly the team and more importantly again the recognition of the shared sacrifice that everyone in Dublin GAA are putting in to their common cause. It’s less individualistic than Kerry ( or maybe ourselves ) They are not going on in the media about tearing stripes of opposition teams or how they resemble wild alpha animals.
Paradoxically Dublin are superior in their shared confidence because of their shared humility. These GAA men are well rounded individuals in a way like I don’t see in other teams. They don’t really feel the need to be talking about how tigerish they are as countymen kind of shite. They are doctors and consultants FFS !! They go to places like China and Africa and realize that Kerry, for all its charms , is not the only place in the world. Not by a long way.
Dublin have modernized the game to an incredible degree and for that reason alone I don’t resent their success. In fact I applaud it and am utterly in awe of them.
Finally , Jim Gavin is something else. They rolled out his human equivalent after the five in a row and he was infinitely more charming. They should keep this one. He showed a lovely touch with his Dad and in so many other ways. Made of utter steel I wasn’t sure about him but now I know.
To be frank , I think Mayo will be the ones to stop this Dublin team. All I hope is that it’s in an All Ireland Final. In 2020.
Willie Joe – I assume they get a free pass because they have 37 All Ireland’s. Tyrone, Donegal, Galway etc all get easier print from the media due to they have won recent All Ireland’s…
We have been in ONE QUARTER of all football finals since 89 and won zero which is a terrible return to put it mildly and we will be ridiculed and laughed at until such time we actually deliver Sam….that’s the reality. I’ve done caring what people outside think about us but we really do need to win one, for the sanity of mayo fans everywhere if anything.
I have to laugh at Prime time, the guy in the studio is from the same club as the Gaa President, how convenient that he was the one sent to represent Dublin Gaa.
Mayo 88, And what a conceited smug so and so he was too, wouldn’t hear tell of Dublin having any advantages over the rest of the counties whatsoever. I think Jim Gavin should retire from Dublin and take on the Louth job next year. His aim is to win a leinster title with the exact same resources as Louth currently have within 3 years. If he achieves that. Il row in on the claim that hes the greatest Gaa manager of all time.
Dublin being split is inevitable in my opinion. Could be 10+ years away but by 2029 they’ll have won at least another 5 All Ireland’s (a conservative estimate) it’ll then mean Dublin will have won at least 12 All Ireland’s in 19 seasons. Their dominance is simply going to continue to the ultimate detriment of the game nationally and it’s primarily down to population. Yes, they had a major population advantage for decades but it’s only in the last 10 years that they’ve really begun to tap into that advantage. The game has changed too. It’s so much more professional in every facet which means that counties with greater numbers will invariably have greater success. Even splitting Dublin in two will still leave them in a significantly more advantageous position than every other county.
It’s sad when you think about it.
Mayos only hope of being one of the counties who can feed off the scraps and perhaps win an All Ireland on a year when Dublin aren’t at their best, is to look to make our average player of a higher standard than the average dub or anyone else. This is achievable but only if a correct primary and secondary schools programme is initiated. It isnt there at the moment.
WJ, can you put up another blog post soon? It’s wearing me a bit to see this headline at the top every time I check in here! :p
I have the solution for you, Digits – there’s a new podcast episode out tomorrow. Inter-county season wrap with Billy Joe and the rest of the lads.
It’s not just money, I admire the Dublin Team, brilliant consistently, great player’s, great player’s, great managnent and always humble in public anyway…. But as well as the money, What about playing at home, in Croke Park every Leinster Semifinal, Leinster Final, All Ireland quater final’s, Semifinals and Final, two out of three Super Eight’s Match’s, all in Croke Park, where Dublin have always the same dressing rooms, and come out first, and to add insult to Injury, they don’t even have to pay for the Grass getting cut, when the League Semifinal were on the go earlier in this Decade,all were in Croke Park, and All League Final’s in Croke Park….. Home advantage is a very real advantage in Sport, Kerry haven’t been beaten in 34 year’s in the Championship in Killarney, prior to 2015 Mayo had an outstanding record in Castlebar in both League and Championship for over a decade before that, (not 100% record, but excellent all the same)… Ulster GAA always fix both of the Semifinal’s for a Neutral Venue, Regardless of who’s playing… Mayo, Galway or Roscommon, if we happened to meet Leitrim or Sligo in a Connacht Final it’s always in a Real Neutral Venue, … Imagine if Dublin had to play Kildare in Newbridge, after a week of ‘Newbridge or Nowhere’ in the Leinster Championship once in a while….In Rugby, Leinster, Ulster, Munster and Connacht all play each other regularly at the home of their opponents… I would say that Home Advantage is scientifically proven, what exactly it’s worth to a team, Probably, 3 or 4 point’s I would suggest in a game of Gaelic Football!
we lost a bunch of semi finals and finals narrowly and basically beat ourselves in a bunch of them.
Goalkeeping clangers, sending off at critical times, going wide open at the back against the Dubs in many matches, Playing full back on big men giving away 3or 4 inches and a couple of stone, persisting with fellas that were not up to standard when there were clearly better options, not slowing down matches when needed the list goes on.
Personally believe we would have won a couple of all ireland if we had the likes of Harte or Mcguinnes over the team the last decade. we had the tools to do it so no point blaming the Dubs or anyone else.
Dublin are good but it’s the standard of what they’re up against in this era that’s lead to complete domination. if they were playing against Kerry or Tyrone or armagh of the last decade they would have nowhere near 7 from 9 all ireland’s.
I doubt the level of domination is going to continue at the current level. 9 of the match day 26 were 31plus that’s a lot of bodies for the Dubs to replace. If we get our house in order there could be a big chance in the next 2-3 years of getting over the line
Cork football Manager Ronan McCarthy has brought in Cian O’Neill as Strength and Conditioning coach.JH has to bring in some new blood into the Mayo backroom team for 2020 as there is very little Inter county experience in it.Expect Cork to come strong in the next 2 to 3 years , won the Under 20 and Minor All Irelands this year.
Centerfield – of the Dublin starting team the last day, Fitzsimons is 30 but every other outfield player is still in their 20s. They will be well able to replace the older guys on the bench. Brogan didn’t play at all, Connolly was a hindrance to them in the 2nd half. MacCauley and McManamon only made token appearances.
Also, the standard this decade is much higher than the last. That’s accepted by everyone. Players are training 6 days a week now. The games are generally much higher scoring too.
Wideball the point being that in 15 they were able to bring Mcmeenamin and Mcauley off the bench and blow is out of the water with them. in 16 they did the same with Mcauley and Costelllo. They can’t do that now so they have declined and given that there’s are rake of them 30 plus and a few more that are 29 they are likely to decline further. if they were able to replace them easy enough they would have done it and wouldn’t have brought Connolly back.
MDMA played all year except the replay and Cluxton their most critical player is 37.
Not sure what the fitness of the teams has got to do with the quality of the teams.every generation is fitter than the last
@Centerfield , Give us a specific example of Mayo beating themselves, or any other team beating themselves either please?… Absolutely Nonsense…it never happened in the history of sport,… Another example of all too often repeated ‘old saying’s’ like the ‘Early bird gets the early worm’ is an argument for getting up early, except that the early worm get’s the early bird as well’ ..Who are you listening to to convince you of such anti truth in the first place? … I know what you mean in that often time’s Mayo, by mistakes contribute to their own demise… So have Dublin, but twice we played out draw’s with this Dublin Team in their 5 in a Row, also in 2013, 2016, 2017, we were beaten by a single point, Don’t you think that the Financial unfair Advantage’s, Population Advantage, Referee Advantage and always having to play Dublin in their Home Venue has something to do with it?…. I wouldn’t like YOU ever to be in the position of making the argument for saving the neck of an innocent man from the Hangman’s Rope, like used to happen once upon a time… and finally we beat both McGuiness’s Donegal twice, Mickey Harte led team’s also twice in the Championship in the last few years, (in 2016 it’s probably fair to say that Mickey Harte lost a game he should have won V Mayo)where’s your evidence that, either were better managed than Mayo apart from 2012 , it’s not there, it doesn’t exist.
We saw a different side to Jim Gavin after the final whistle on Saturday a more human side normally on the field we see a driven ruthless almost professional manager. 2 years ago friends of mine from the Erris area boarded a flight from Dublin with their kids a few minutes before take off the captain made the usual spiel announcing who he was and who was with him in the cockpit normally my friend wouldn’t pass a bit of heed but when he heard the name Captain Jim Gavin he wondered Is this the man that inflicted so much misery on us anyway he asked one of the cabin crew is that Jim Gavin that manages Dublin and she looked at his Mayo T shirt and smiled and said it is. They relaxed into the flight and a few minutes before they landed the same cabin crew member came down the aisle and said to Sean hold on a few minutes until everyone has disembarked the captain would like to meet you so they did and Gavin was an absolute gentleman he spent time showing the kids all around the cockpit and the equipment etc and chatted to them about football and Made time for them and posed for photos. He made their day and probably their holiday. Whatever about funding and playing all their games in Croke Park etc the Dubs have the right attitude and I’m happy for all genuine Dublin fans like Martin the Dub and Loretto rd and Jaden and others. Our day will come please Fpd we have a lot of work to do to catch up but the academy and proper fundraising is a step in the right direction
Backdoorsam, that’s a nice story but Jim Gavin being a nice fella has got zilch to do with the unfair advantages that Dublin have. There should be a level playing field for all counties in as much as there possibly can be and that should be ensured by the GAA anyway, it’s not up to Dublin.
I see Jarlath Burns has announced his nomination for the GAA presidency. I have always found him honest and reasonable with the best interests of the association at heart. The next president is critical, if we get another John Horan it’s good night.
I agree with you Niall but Jim Gavin is dead right to take every advantage going and make hay while he can we would do it if we were in Dublin’s position. It doesn’t make it right but that’s the way it is at the moment
Some interesting points made by posters on here. Regarding the Dubs veteran players, there are 8 or 9 of our players veterans or approaching. You could categories the Mayo panel into 3 groups: Veterans, mature and up n coming.There are some overlapping but broadly speaking here they are:
Clarke, Barrett, Higgins, Boyler, Vaughan, SOS, Tom P, Kevin Mc,
Hennelly, Harrison, S Coen, LeeRoy, Durcan, Aido, Jason, DOC, COC,
Up n coming/knocking on the door: 10
EOD, Plunkett, McCormack, Ruane, McDonagh, Treacy, Carr, D Coen, Loftus, Boland.
2020 is a big year for the newbies and crucially for Boland and Loftus. They all have to step up now as most of the veterans will be gone by end of 2020. We also need 4 or 5 more young uns breaking into the 2020 panel, particularly a goalie, crucially a full back and a few forwards.
The veterans should not be making an appearance until the latter stages of the League. Team management and rotation will be key. And we just have to win Nestor next year.
Jim Gavin in a class act and a gent, nobody could dispute that. Its a long way from the likes of Pillar Caffrey and Tommy lyons in terms of humility.
I do tend to agree with McStay article yesterday though, while most people have been magnanimous in acknowledging history being made by a truly great team in a great final, that will likely sour if they go on to do 6/7… in a row. People will switch off from the county game if that is the case….
Its a real shame because the quality has never been higher, if you took Dublin out of it there would be an epic championship which Mayo/Kerry/donegal/tyrone/cork/monaghan/galway all fancying their chances
If the 6 in a row happens i genuinely would entertain the talk of splitting dublin in 2, something i would have thought ridiculous a few years ago
If Dublin is split in two – what is to stop all the top players from playing with the North side or the South side. They just have to change address and transfer.
…but that is the case for everyone who wants to transfer. Its a moot point
Few funnies in that McStay piece.
* Mayo at elite level – maybe, maybe not. Really?
* Mayo would be chokers – if they lost, but not Kerry. Really? Note that Kerry have lost two national finals this year, had a man up and were a point up late on in the drawn game.
* His point about strength and conditioning is valid. If what posters are saying is true and we have regressed post Barry Solan, this is directly at the feet of JH and must be rectified. Our newer players need this, as does Darren Coen and a few more.
I think McStay’s bang on the money there, Catcol, on the chokers point. I made the same point myself yesterday but, as someone said correctly in reply, it’s Kerry’s 37 All-Irelands that account for the free pass they’re being given, despite losing two national finals this year and failing to capitalise on what was a clear match-winning situation in the drawn game.
Catcol I think McStay’s point is the accusations that would have been leveled at Mayo had they been in Kerry’s situation, drawing a game when the majority of it was against a team with a man less.
But it is indeed Kerry’s 37 all Ireland’s that prevent what would be leveled at us from being thrown at them.
If you have a reputation for getting up early you can stay in bed all day.
Indeed. Kerry cannot be called chokers with their 37 all irelands, including one as recently as 2014 when they closed the deal in a decade where we claim to be the ‘2nd best team’ in the country
I would agree with McStay article, valid point regarding “choking” and a very good point regarding Dublin Conditioning Coach in Brian Cullen. His comment regarding Mayos status at the moment is debatable but I can see his point of view, Beaten in Connacht again and beaten badly by both AI finalists, we are definitely not at the level we were in 2017 but that not to say that we can not get back their (personally I think we can).
On the splitting Dublin into two, or three or four, I really cant see this happening no matter how much people want it and I think it could very easily be a case of careful what you wish for, do we really want 2 Dublin teams in the championship? in 5 years time will we end up with two Dublin teams at the same level as the current one, what next, amalgamation of other counties to compete, its a very slippery slope.
Finally on the Money issue, we all know that the GAA have been financially doping Dublin for the past 10 years and only those wearing blue tinted glasses can think otherwise. The GAA do really need to redress this issue and I think eventually they will (why county boards, especially those in Leinster haven’t forced the issue yet is another issue). However what do people think will happen if the GAA turn off the tap tomorrow? Up to now Dublin haven’t been interested in fund raising as they really didn’t have to, but if their current funding is reduced im certain they will become very motivated to raise funds elsewhere, and add that to the AIG money then Dublin will remain in a far better financial position than the rest, maybe even better than they are now!
Basically there are no easy answers, and hoping a raft of retirements from Dublin will solve the issue is basically fantasy land.
For another perspective – and great on Mayo too – Kieran Shannon on Cork’s predicted dominance that never came and Dublin’s drought that some thought might never end:
MayoMad – Fair points above… but ….just for the sake of argument though….
Many people would see a ‘derby’ match between the Northside and Southside as a really tasty clash. Derbies are the biggest attraction in other sports (although I too agree it’s unlikely to happen).,I think it could develope into a real rivalry that neutrals have an interest in. From a Mayo point of view I would take my chances facing one of those teams rather than the real prospect that Mayo may not beat the Dublin behemoth with a 1.2M population for 20 years.
On the amalgatmation – The chances for talented footballers from e.g. Sligo, Leitrim etc to get near a super 8 (never mind an AI) are slim. Their best hope (IMO) is through amalgamation. (Again perhaps unlikely to happen in GAA), but I think it’s a pity. The reality is that the most talented players in those counties are being picked off by other sports – soccer, rugby and even AFL. (see sligo for lat 2 years). A combined Sligo/Leitrim for example would give Connacht Champ a reasonable rattle every year. What is the downside for Sligo/Leitrim? Players can still play for their clubs and Sligo and Leitrim fans have a reasonbale hope of getting a day out in CP every so often.
2019 season review episode of the podcast is now online.
I never suggested population was not the major issue but there is currently no appetite in the Dublin power house to entertain a split. That will only happen when the public tune out and turn off as they have already started to do as they are bored and disillusioned with the spectacle on offer.
I also have no burning desire to see Dublin split in 4 but when one county hosts a third of the islands population, allied with commercial power I can see no other logical conclusion OR some other radical proposal that will be completely anathema to the traditionalists in the GAA. I classify myself somewhat of a traditionalist, but even GAA stalwarts like your own Pat Gilroy recognise that the current situation is unsustainable.
The splitting of Dublin in two was proposed by a review committee in 2002 and although a commitment was given to “experiment” with the idea, nothing was agreed or done basically because the Dublin County board rejected the idea. So it’s not a new idea that somebody pulled out of their arse OR an incredulous proposal out of left field.
What has happened in the interim since 2002 to make a split much less attractive from a financial perspective is the corporate sponsorship packages coming into “Brand Dublin” from AIG and Dublin’s other official corporate partners. The current AIG 4 million Euro deal runs until 2023 so nothing will change with regards splitting Dublin at least until then
Why your season ticket and match programme have gone up might be related to the fact that people are fed up with the status quo and gate receipts are down so the GAA bean counters have to tap some other revenue source to feed the bottom line.
Figures released in February 2019 showing a significant drop in football championship attendances, with gate receipts down 4.8m Euro and overall attendance by 18 per cent. The average attendance at championship games fell from 19,049 to 13,225, a drop of over a third. But their answer seems to be to try and squeeze as many more games in as possible into a short a time frame as possible and to have as many of those games as possible played in Croke Park. Anybody witnessing the schedule Mayo players were subjected to this year should be appalled. From a player welfare, health & wellbeing perspective it was a criminal exercise and going to face the Dubs in the semi was just sacrificial cannon fodder.
The Super 8’s as a spectacle has been a failure with meaningless, dead rubber games and the Leinster Championship is a non-event. If Mayo had not made the semi-final this year and the final had not gone to a replay I would suggest you could have expected some more punitive increases next year. Besides the All Ireland finals the only full house capacity games this year in the football championship all have one common denominator – Mayo.
With regards the financial imbalance the simplest stat says there are 32 County teams on the island and one of those counties has received between 2007 & 2018 circa 18m in games development funding whilst Mayo in this period received 0.7m. Now you can turn that around and say that stat is too simplistic and it is down to population size, players registered or whatever but whatever way you slice n dice it still does not add up, but we are still waiting for John Horan to enlighten us on his chosen metric. I understand based on players registered Dublin receive something like 12.5 times funding per player more than Mayo.
Then you look at the tax payer funded “Bertie Bonus Ball” which is not factored into the equation, there is also the government tax payer funded grants. In 2017 10 Dublin clubs received the maximum government grants of 150K (only one other club in the country received this) Another 4 Dublin clubs received grants between 149K and 123K. Then you look at the ability of Dublin clubs themselves to raise funds through corporate sponsorship and other means which simply cannot be matched by clubs in the country. Earlier this year Cuala announced a new corporate sponsorship deal with a multinational corporation Amgen, this on top of the role of honour corporate sponsors already supporting the club (Microsoft, Sherry Fitzgerald, Huawei, Energia, Ulster Bank) Now fair play to Cuala, you have to admire and even be envious of them but neither clubs nor counties up and down the country can replicate this sponsorship template. Yet Cuala is a club in receipt of games development funding from the GAA whereas when Fermanagh completed a strategic review which was signed off by central council and recommended Fermanagh appoint a full time strength and conditioning coach and a commercial director, they were told there was no funding to support them?
In the meantime Dublin can afford to appoint full time professionals at the top of their careers in key roles like as strength & conditioning such as Ryan Cullen & Shane Malone poached from Leinster Rugby & the IRFU. They didn’t join the party of “wonderful volunteers” purely for the love of the game. In the meantime volunteers from Mayo scour the globe for donations to cover the travel and catering bills.
The inevitable structural changes in Dublin are at least 4 years out, at which stage Dublin will be probably at 9 in a row, by then even those in Mayo will have switched off and tuned into WWWF, as at least we know that’s show biz and when Vince McMahon steps up to the microphone we are not expected to take him seriously, unlike John Horan who whilst keeping a straight face tells us that we need to follow the Dublin model, that central funding is not linear, it’s complicated, it’s down to thousands of hours put in by Dublin’s army of volunteers, a once in a life time team, a genius coach & other such patronising horse shite – they need to start with the finance and indeed help regional county board put better structures and governance in place.
It wont be the final solution but a good place to start for now.
Mike, I see your point regarding a Derby Match as it does have the potential to be a big event but do people want one of the biggest games of the year be the annual Dublin v Dublin clash (Glasgow Derby overshadows everything else in Scotland , Barca v Madrid likewise in Spain). Will there be two separate Dublin County Councils or will the existing body overseen the two teams? what if they decide to concentrate Dublin North as football and Dublin South as Hurling? then nothing changes. I cant see Dublin being split up but if it does then it needs to be well thoughtout and not an off the cuff decision.
Regarding amalgamation of counties, imo this would be the death of the GAA, its easy to say weaker counties should join when you’re from a strong county. is it really worth giving up your counties identity for the chance to play in Croke Park now and again, I think not, if for example Mayo were a struggling div 3 side would anyone consider amalgamating with another county, not likely and im sure the people of Sligo and Leitrim feel the same. People have great pride in their county and wont want to see that identity lost. What if an amalgamated Sligo/Leitrim managed to beat Mayo in Connacht a few times? Im sure the calls for them to be split up again would be deafening from the Mayo side.
Basically there is no easy answers to the problems the GAA faces and in reality some can not be fixed, there will always be strong counties and there will always be weak ones, its the nature of sport all around the world. All the GAA can do and all they need to do is create a level playing field for all to play on and its up to each individual county after that.
If someone completely removed from GAA was brought in and told make this an equitable competition where everyone has a chance of winning something. The following would be like
1. Dublin would be split in 4
2. Some of the other large cities, cork etc would be spilt from county.
3. All funding including sponsorship would be centrally pooled and distributed equally
4. Backroom teams would be limited by total cost, number or other metric similar to the salary cap in the nfl
5. Teams would play an equal number of home and away games and finals would be in neutral venues.
6. Competition would be tiered with chance of promotion and relegation between different tiers.
Now this is all pie in the sky stuff and none of it will ever happen.
Mayo need a full back to stop the soft goals in most games and stop the panic when the high ball comes into the like of M Murphy and T Walsh . There is no real full back in current bunch of defenders on panel and nothing coming to light in current Club Championship. Therefore I would suggest that Aiden O Shea be used there for the next few years , he can field a ball with anyone in the game and is a good tackler and was a success there when played against Kerry last year. Also with a young team coming next year , speed and fast movement of the ball should be Mayo’s game. Aiden slows down the game as a forward and hasn’t the pace for full game in midfield. Problem solved.
Culmore, sorry but I have to say moving Aido to fb for “the next few years” is a mental idea, Aido had an excellent season at midfield (his best position) and is up there in our top 3 players of the year, moving him from a position where he is so influential would be madness. imo people are making too much out of this fb issue, you are correct that there are no fb coming through that could handle Walsh or Murphy but no other county has one either, that player doesn’t exist anywhere in the country. The way to deal with players such as murphy, walsh etc is a well organised defence that doesn’t leave one on ones with these types of players, that’s something that Mayo are well capable of doing.
WMD.. A lot of what you say is so true. But yet there is other factors that muddy the waters considerably.. Cuala are from a very rich part of the country, pull in those sponsors you mention. Yet have no pitch of their own.. Their all ireland winning hurling team had to travel to Bray to train. Their changing rooms are shipping containers. The big one for the Gaa is if Cuala fail.. The youth of that area is gone to the rugby. That’s the number one sport there.. I said before I’m from ( what I consider the heartland of Dublin gaa) we have Erins Isle, Kickhams, Na Fianna. All in the area.. And yet in my sons school, his year have 64 boys… 14 play gaa. That’s were the money goes.. The gaa are in a battle for the youth.. Now I have friends in drogheda (largest town in Ireland) it’s soccer true and true.. I married into a wicklow family. Don’t think they knew Gaa existed before I appeared.. The gaa has to expand the plan to get the youth in these counties involved
. The gaa needs major overhaul… Provincial champos first to go.. Super eights are far from super.. My favourite time of year is the league.. Stuck in the depths of winter.. But over all these.. Populations are the biggest issues.. And if the split comes it will be north/ south.. Think about it.. We’d have Cluko. Rock. McCarthy. The Smalls. Howard. Fento. Cooper. etc.. Those southerners would have to do with.. Con, Mannion. Mdma. Mick Fitz.. Hmmm now that would be tasty.. Throw in Mayo/Longford v Leitrim /sligo it starts getting very tasty.. Oh and Dublin north get the black gear.. Dubs are the blacks of Ireland and northsiders are the blacks of Dublin (commitments)… You mentioned Ryan Cullen being poached from leinster rugby.. I assume you mean Bryan Cullen.. The captain of Dublin who lifted Sam eight years yesterday. Who went to leinster rugby to get some experience training.. Before he Returned to his beloved Dubs
Yes the very man Bryan Cullen and it is to be applauded for any county to hire and develop from within if people have the skill sets, training and knowledge to do the job. You wont find me on here promoting the hiring of Jim McGuinness, Jack O’Connor, Mickey Harte when in my humble opinion James Horan is the best man for the job and the relative success of the “Horan Era” team has masked deficiencies at our own County Board level but also at a national level.
However related to Bryan Cullen my point is he didn’t leave Leinster Rugby just for the love of the job as another “volunteer” the package had to be attractive enough to entice him and the same for Shane Malone who left the IRFU.
Professional sports career people do not leave established professionally funded organisations that compete on an international level for “amateur” local organisations which compete on a national level without the package being financially attractive.
No other county in Ireland can compete with that, even a pretty mature well funded organisation like Tyrone GAA lost their strength and conditioning coach to Ulster Rugby which is the direction of travel one would expect to see, amateur to professional.
Except the truth of the matter is Dublin are an amateur set up in name only and have the structure and financial backing of a professional organisation.
Outta the blue, I live in Dublin also, I think I have finally cracked the Gaa’s code.
You mentioned Cuala, they have very strong teams, both girls and boys even though they are situated in a very upper middle class area.
I believe that the Gaa are setting out to make Gaelic games the strongest sport in Dublin, there are still parts of the city that play soccer or Rugby only.
This probably won’t change as the private secondary schools play Rugby only.
The three clubs you mentioned are very unbalanced, Na Fianna have too many players, 3 teams each year from u12 – u18, while Ballymun Kickhams and Erin’s Isles have much smaller numbers, there are no parish boundaries like in counties such as Mayo.
Dublin will never be split, they have ddtoo many power brokers within the Gaa and they would never agree to it.
Mayo88 – Your right, but I also believe you maybe wrong
The strategic review completed in 2002 had many proposals including a split of Dublin in 2 which the Dublin County Board disliked so that got binned sharpish!
Remember at this stage Dublin had won 1 AI title between 1984 to 2002, this type of “barren period” for the capital could not be countenanced, so what to do about it?
The wise men back then decided the capital required “special attention” and that “special attention” translated into a serious investment in terms of “finance and people” so in short “the capital got capital”
The taps were turned on in 2004 and have continued to flow since with results published by Sean McGoldrick showing since 2007 Dublin population circa 1.4m have received circa 18m Euros and Cork with a population circa 0.55m receiving 1.4m Euros, or Antrim another urban area with an untapped population primarily due to religious persuasion of circa 0.6m Euros. Now you can break it down by club, (Cork have 250, Dublin 93) by registered player, by population or whatever you want but it basically adds up to the same thing, finance has been dis-proportionally funnelled into Dublin since 2004 at the cost of the other counties games development as apart of a strategic decision taken back in 2002.
Now “Outta Da Blue” shares his own experience related to his own kids school where 14 out of 64 kids play GAA and also the cost of land in Dublin for games of any ilk or persuasion.
OK but what is the aim here? is it to have every school child in every school in Dublin play GAA?
If that is the aim we are going to need an awful lot more land unless they are playing virtual GAA on their consoles and when those all those kids get to 16, 18 or 20 they will be bitterly disappointed as there will only be 30 or so places for them on the Dublin underage and senior squads to aspire too.
So if complete schools penetration and domination over other sports in Dublin is the ultimate endgame then to furnish that we need # 1 more land in Dublin and # 2 more Dublin County teams so they have somewhere to play and we don’t loose these lads/girls we invested in so heavily between 16 to 21
# 1 they simply don’t have and # 2 they simply refuse to have – so what gives?
No doubt even Fermanagh who I read somewhere have circa 250 senior players to pick a county team from could do with some funding to penetrate the schools in their Protestant neighbours after all this is 2019 and GAA is an all inclusive sport? (they have the land apparently)
What you maybe wrong about I think is
You say there is to much power in Dublin – OK true – and that they will “never” entertain a split – maybe – maybe not
They wont right now as we said earlier the madness of the Mayo supporters over the last decade along with replays in semi finals AI Finals and again the recent replay and Mayo semi final have sustained the financial bottom line for the last decade or more – The Horan Era team.
But the attendance numbers overall are showing a downward trend, that will only get worse in Leinster and unless James Horan can pull another rabbit from the hat and bring the mad Mayo hordes with him on the journey it is more than likely attendances across the championship will continue to fall alarmingly, and James has a much more difficult task on his hands this time round as Dublin have pulled further away and the Mayo County Board still seem to be offering as much hindrance as help.
Now Power & Money maintain a symbiotic relationship – you cant have one without the other really can you?
If the attendances fall the money dries up and when every other show has left town there will be only one show left in town – Dublin
How the next 4 years pan out will determine it all but my bet is they will be forced, in an effort to maintain the power base to split Dublin in 4 and create a revenue stream from Dublin and in doing so return to some semblance of a competition.
But again before waiting for that Dooms Day Scenario they should in the meantime sort out the disparity in finance OR at least have the decency to explain to us how they maintain it is allocated “fairly”
When Tyrone county unanimously passed a motion last year that the GAA introduce “a transparent formulate for the distribution of monies allocated to each county for Games Development”, it was shot down by Croke Park.
Their Rules Advisory Committee decreed that it was in conflict with a flimsy rule governing the jurisdiction of Central Council.
As I said before John Horan is full of bluster and the money men in the power house will not give it up, but they are eating their own hands!
Interesting Dublin proposal linked below from a Roscommon man thinking outside the box!
Who cares. Didn’t watch the drawn game or the replay. And I’ve never missed a final since as long as I could watch them