It may not have been one of the better All-Ireland finals in recent years but in terms of intensity and how close the contest was right to the end, it wasn’t half bad either. Dublin were deserved two-point winners at the finish.
There was a period early in the second half when Kerry got a run on them and, leading by three points, began to have the look of (back-to-back) winners about them. Their ferocity in defence, combined with Dublin’s repeated difficulties in holding onto the ball up top in the wet conditions, created the turnovers that gave them the opportunities for points that enabled them to push clear.
Paddy Small’s goal – and Gavin White’s mistake that led to it – was an obvious turning point in the contest, at a flash pulling the Dubs level. Kerry negated this three-pointer by bagging the game’s next three scores, two from the impressive Paidí Clifford, but Dublin then came with an imperious late surge, scoring seven of the remaining nine points to win it by two.
I was telling anyone who’d listen to me all week that I couldn’t see any circumstances in which Dublin would lose this final. As ever with my predictions, however, I hadn’t bargained for a number of relevant factors in today’s game. Such as Kerry’s turnover count, the failure of Con O’Callaghan or Ciaran Kilkenny to score at all or Cormac Costello only accounting for a single pointed free.
Then again I never factored in David Clifford’s underperformance either, his second one in an All-Ireland final against Dublin. That’s despite the fact that I’m forever bristling at all that babble about his being the best footballer of all time.
Four wides and a shot coming up short showed that the incessant fawning over the Fossa player is all a bit silly. Clifford’s a generational talent, for sure, and he’ll definitely have much better days on the big stage than today, all the more so if this nonsense talk about him is dialled down to more realistic levels. It’s been an extremely tough year for him (and his brother) and this needs to be factored in as well.
So, the Jacks are back. When Kerry failed to win the five-in-a-row in 1982, they were back two years later and they added a three-in-a-row to their earlier landmark achievements before that great team broke up. Dublin are now back in possession of Sam two years after we ended the unbeaten run of the six-in-a-row team so could history be about to repeat itself?
I guess the maintenance of Dublin’s restored position at the top of the pile will now largely depend on how many of the players who saw action today will stick around. It was clear from the post-match interviews how much today’s win meant to them but are these great old warriors prepared to go again next year and, possibly, the year after that as well?
If they don’t, then they’ll still leave the stage as some of the finest performers any of us will have ever seen. Coming down the closing stretch today they proved that yet again, calmly going about the business of closing out an All-Ireland title victory in the way they’d already done so often over the past decade.
It’s almost an impertinence to interpose us into this discussion because, after this year’s quarter-final blowout, we weren’t part of the All-Ireland conversation this year. We can, I guess, claim some credit for the fact that we were knocked out by the eventual winners but I’m not sure the twelve-point hammering we suffered at Dublin’s hands gives us much in the way of basking in their reflected glory.
If anything, today demonstrated rather starkly how much our so-called ‘decent effort’ this year fell short of the standard required to be truly competitive at the top level. Do we have the capability to defend with the feral intensity both sides showed today? Are we capable of scrapping for and winning possession as if our very lives depended on it in the middle third? Can we get to a level where we’re capable of creating and converting scoring chances under the highest of pressure?
In all three of these areas (and more) our level of performance this summer was well below that of both Dublin and Kerry today. While neither of them are an exceptional team, on today’s evidence they – and a few others – are ahead of where we are right now.
If that’s a sobering conclusion to take from today’s final, then it’s also, I believe, an accurate one. But, as already noted, today wasn’t about us and was instead all about a Dublin team who, once again, found a way to win the Sam Maguire.
Congrats to them on doing so, they’re deserved All-Ireland champions this year.
Its all to play for next year imo
how was McCarthy still on the pitch??
Dublin are magnificent champions. Kerry were absolutely amazing and were unlucky today. We are not close to this standard. Yet. As others stated,start with S&C upgrade ,bring in more young players and I’m guessing around 2026 we could be.
The Jack’s are Back after The Famine of 2 years..
They won with Quality, Tactics and a hunger for victory.
Quality.Tactics and hunger for Victory are 3 things that Mayo have to have if We are ever to win The All Ireland Final.
@food for thought 2026? Ha ah now we are much closer then people think.
We need a good defensive plan and not that far off at all .. don’t think kerry were unlucky dublin were better had and that extra edge to get over the line .
Thought the game wasn’t that entertaining as far as finals go either I’ve seen better but congrats to dublin !
Watching game today, while both teams conceded a goal. None of the high ball into the goal mouth ended up in a goal, today. This is Mayo achiles heel for year. Kick it in high, we contest it, end up we loss it, ends up in the net. Very annoying, it not super play from opposition, it the most basic of plays from Junior B handbook. Watching full backs for years, most of them intent on full forward not be able to jump, never mind winning ball, as long as they don’t win it
Looking at first half stats, second not available, in all 20 turnovers indicating the verocity of defences. Dublin win 10/10 their own kickouts…
All to play for next year… yeah between Kerry and Dublin again…
Will be interesting to see do Derry have another push in them, you do get the sense they may have reached a ceiling of sorts. But I can’t see anyone else realistically challenging unless Tyrone pull something out of the fire
“Then again I never factored in David Clifford’s underperformance either, his second one in an All-Ireland final against Dublin”
Not sure about this WJ, if I remember he put up a good score in 2019 in both matches and was only about 20?
Are we really that far behind?
The management is the biggest worry.
Can they get a proper defensive structure n place?
If they don’t, they are wasting their time.
Can they get a kickout strategy in place?
Second half of the 2019 drawn final, Ciaran, he hardly touched the ball in that period, all of which time Kerry were a man up. He might have only been twenty then but he was winning his second All-Star that year so you’d expect an All-Star performance and that wasn’t one.
What a phenomenal team. 9 All Ireland titles in 12 years. Could see how much this one meant to them after the final whistle blew. Deserved champions.
One issue I’ve always had with McCarthy is that he has always been a bit on the dirty side..remember the tacks in 2016 that put Vaughan out (replay).
Yes Dubs deserved it however it should be noted they have every advantage going. Don’t tell me that the funding pumped in to Dublin in the last 20 years hadn’t made a difference…and the influx of country people in to the city over the past 30 years (who once would have emigrated to London etc.)
Are you telling me JP’s money hasn’t helped Limerick?
Those advantages should be acknowledged re Dublin..and my worry is they could control dominate.
Dublin are ahead of us and Kerry are too but we are not out of the picture and it might take 3 or 4 yrs but the talent is coming through,
Exactly Ciaran, let’s not fool ourselves. We are back in the chasing pack with Dublin and Kerry in a league of their own. I’d eat my hat if Mayo won by the turn of the century. We had our chance.
Defence is key. McStay in the most recent interview acknowledged this but 2023 saw little evidence of a coherent and worthwhile defensive plan (and I was a definite advocate of him getting the job and am still backing him). It appeared from his interview too that he still sees Loftus as a realistic option at 6. Regardless, the structure just wasn’t there. It’s not about the personnel.
We have an awful habit of kicking the can down the road. IMO, Mayo should target Sam every year. Yes, some years we’ll have more talent than others. Some years, the level of competition may be higher than previously or vice versa. The job of a manager is to maximise his strengths and to set up the Mayo team in the most optimum way so as to deliver success. That means different structures, styles and tactics depending on what kind of players we have. Where our strengths lie etc.
It’s just the wrong mentality not to target Sam every season. Mayo will be right in the shake up for an All Ireland if we get our set up right. Kerry will too, as will Galway with (if) all their injured players are back. Derry and Tyrone too. I’m going out on a limb now but I wouldn’t be surprised if Dublin don’t win another All Ireland in the next 5 years.
Isnt that a worry. That McStay is still clinging on to a failed chaotic system. He believes it didn’t work because Loftus wasn’t able to execute the plan. It didn’t work out for him (ie it was a great plan). It’s about as daft as giving Orme a number 9 jersey , though they have no intention of starting. The games grown men play…it’s worrying for us. I do think teams from the north will break the Dublin Kerry domination…. Gaelic football is buzzing up there …
I was lucky to have a seat in Corker today, massive Kerry turn out.
Off the ball (camera for TV) Dublin had 6 backs plus a constant 1 or 2 man sweeper, there was on early option ball into Geaney or D Cliff. Paudie was looking for both of them each time as we’re S O S etc.
Also M Fitz had a hold of Clifford all day. Good old fashioned defense.
We (Mayo) have to move away from the romantic way of playing football, the open running and chaos game we used to play and all pundits talk about. Time to wake up and win ugly like Dublin did today and have for years. The Dubs team now is far removed from the team of 11/20. Yet they still win. We don’t.
Time to close ’23. Let’s see IF we can progress for ’24
Derry have a really strong stream of players coming down the line from underage squads. Tyrone and Down have too, but maybe not to the same level. Our minors have been well beaten the last 3 years in their final outings. We have a lot of work to do.
Fitzsimons is a good defender however let’s not kid ours..Clifford scored 2 points with assist for a goal..if he had his shooting boots on he’d have scored another 5 or 6 points..it wasn’t Fitzsimons that prevented those missed- it was Clifford missing chances he’d normally take!
Very foolish comment from Paul Flynn on the Sunday Game about other counties ‘learning’ from Dublin as regards their funding model. Croke Park the home of all important fixtures where Dublin dont even pay for the cutting of the grass, no need for the Dublin County Board to pay the astronomical price gouging prices charged by Hotels in Ireland, and their travel bills a fraction of any other County in Ireland.
What is progress though Mayo13GB? For kerry, their year is a failure, and all ireland victories are the sole parameter of progress. Here in the west, progess is measured more casuall with flexible parameters that vary dependent on one victory/defeat/performance.
Bit harsh on Clifford, WJ. He had a poor final by his standards no doubt but then how does that compare to Con who is constantly talked about in the same breath as DC? Clifford scores two superb points from play and wonder pass for the goal. He is held to different standards than everyone else. I think all the talk is understandable. He scores more from play than anyone can remember. He has carried his team through in so many big games by the age of 24. He’s going to win his 5th All Star in 6 years, I make it.
Also, if we’re being fair, Clifford was the best footballer in Ireland again this year. If he wins the award in October then that will be back to back FOTY awards.
I have to admit, great crack in Dublin tonight after their win, but, but, I am immune to their joy, for me it is when Mayo finally win that I will find comfort and really celebrate.
Ya, dubs did enough today.. Big players got them over the line.. 7 points to 2 in final 15 mins.. Mannion, Fenton basquel and Jack mc stood up.. Mannion was rightly motm.. But Fenton covered every blade and kicked 2 scores.. He’s an incredible midfielder. I spose the prob is when Clifford has off day, kerry don’t have the forwards or spread of scores Dublin have. It’s the same as mayo.. Not enough scorers at all.. And won’t be im afraid to say for a while.. Can u ever imagine AOS standing up like mannion and kicking 3 or 4 scores in a final.. Hasn’t got one in 7 finals for god sake.. And he’s not alone. All in all… A shite gaa championship in my opinion, ruined by blanket defence and handpassing, rules have to be implemented or the whole thing is fucked.
The west is best…….I disagree about our ‘minors’. We like Senior and U20 have the same game plan match after match. Our minors played Galway three times last year with the same system on each occasion. Galway must be smirking. Our under 20’s were consigned to play sideways and backwards and worse some of these managers are being recommended for further team duties. While we praise Dublin and Kerry today, we have at least eight players on our senior panel that neither of these two teams could catch on the ‘run’.
Mabey our reduced numbers on the sideline could lead to more prompt action with decision making. With all respect to Loftus he’s a square peg in a round hole and persistence in he being played at no. 6 raises questions as to the intelligence of management.
I appeal to management to get to the club matches and find two center fielders with the emphasis on ‘fielding’
Most of these supposedly great forwards are using the same tactics i.e. sidesteps etc. all the time and any ‘ back ‘should be able to counter same.
We had a brilliant minor team last year . We consistently have brilliant footballers come through as i have highlighted before our 54 all stars for a team that haven’t won Sam is off the charts and proves the quality of player is not our biggest problem .
As highlighted on the recent Mayo News Pod, our biggest problem is lack of money given the McHale Park debt 8000 per month paid to HQ. And still 8 million in total outstanding. I think the guys calculated it will take 35 years to clear. Christ if I won the Euro millions I’d become our benefactor myself.
The result of this debt is we cannot afford coaches. There’s your problem. That and the difficulty of ‘winning the first one’, getting over the line. Of course the two are linked.
Dubs got the break in 2011 with a handy free to win it. Limerick 5 years ago panicked, nearly losing a nine point lead, but held on by the skin of their teeth. They got that crucial break that most teams need to breakthrough. Tyrone in the noughties were assisted in no small way by refereees who covered their eyes and ears!!! Imagine Gough refereeing that Tyrone team. Just think about that for a minute. Kerry would have stuffed them each time by double figures.
What if we were rightly awarded the free in 2016 for Bastick picking the ball off the ground? The Pod mentions this.
I’m rambling, but these are our two main problems by a mile.
Funding, and the burden of getting over the line.
Limerick are the team that resembled us the most but the one big difference is JP McManus. Cash is King.
Good win for Dublin today but hardly a reason to have a go at Mayo. While the intensity was unreal and both sets of defenders did very well, it was not a quality game. Had it been a league game in March in front of a few thousand it would be called scrappy. So many good players did not play well. Con, McCarthy and Costello were all poor, while McCaffrey made no impression when introduced. Basquel had a woeful first half but did well in second. Kerry defence was good, but midfield was mediocre at best, Moynihan and O Brien contributed little and very little was seen of S O Shea in second half. Geaney and Paudie C did ok and if D Clifford has his shooting boots on Kerry would have won. Mannion was very good for Dubs and Fitzsimons deserves huge credit and the defensive structure of both teams was very good. Unfortunate for G White, an excellent player that his mistake led to the goal that turned the game. Two final points D Clifford should be Player of the Year because he has been the best player this year. Today was not his greatest day, but his pass for the goal was sublime and he was a handful throughout. And as for Cluxton, simply outstanding. A couple of points, every kick out perfect and calmness personified. The greatest goalie ever by a mile and he doesn’t have to be soloing up the field to prove it. People scoffed when Dublin brought him back saying it was a sign of desperation. We know now what a clever move by Dessie it really was. 9 AI medals is some achievement.
As expected a match decided on fine margins. 73 mins played 1-13 each both had 24 attempts on goal highlighting how finely matched the two team the top two teams in the country are.
the like of McCarthy (lucky to avoid black) and Con O’Callaghan didn’t perform to their high level but others stepped up such as Mannion (best game since returning) and Paddy Small,Basquel 2nd half scoring 1-3 between.
David Clifford below his normally high standard just 0-3 from 8 attempts but did set up the goal. Geaney and his brother played well. In such a fine margin match they’ll especially be kicking themselves about the needless goal given away reminded me of the soft silly goals that Mayo have conceded in AI finals.
Ive watched the Bastick alleged pick up a million times , its certainly not clear he picked it up off the ground , there is an attempt to put the boot under the ball whether he touched the ball before he got his boot under it is very difficult to tell .
As I predicted at the start of the year, Dublin won the All Ireland. People were writing them off-“only in Division 2″,”struggled against average teams”, “hav’nt really played anyone” etc, whist bigging up our hopes here in Mayo, based on our League performances. When are people going to realise that the League and Championship are different on so many levels and the Dublins and Kerrys of this world approach each completely differently and are too bothered about the League-they use it to rest players, experiment and give fringe players game time. It was obvious that Dublin were completely focused on the Championship, timed their run and improved with every game. Where does this leave Mayo for next season and next few years? We know where our problems lie and where improvements need to be made and we need to address these issues. Today’s final, while maybe not of the highest quality showed what is required to compete for and ultimately win Sam-it is commitment, intensity and ferocity, especially out of possession and in defending generally. We need to bring that intensity and ferocity in our defending, from 2 to 15, in forcing turnovers, blocking progress, regaining possession or, at worst, forcing opponents to go for their scores under severe pressure. We simply must stop being easy to score against-no more of these token challenges, half-hearted soft hand contacts, rushing up too quickly on the ball carrier and getting side-stepped etc. That is the biggest lesson fron today-we must bring ferocious intensity. Limerick hurlers are another prime example of this. This needs to be our biggest area of improvement for next season-that and setting up a proper, tighter, more organized defensive structure and finding upgrades at Centre-Half Back(specialist defender) and Midfield(physical high fielders). Not easy I know, but ?.
As I’ve said on here before, it’s all about timing and in Mayo we are spectacularly brutal in our timing. Back in the 60s there was little between us and Galway but they won 3 in a row. For most of the last decade there was next to nothing between us and the greatest team of all time and the Dublin or Mayo teams of 16/17 would have eaten those two yesterday. Unfortunately timing is everything and our timing is crap.
“To Win Just Once” McCaffrey made no impact. What game were you watching. He turned the game on its head with his go to approach and the rest followed him. Best 70 minutes I saw all year was in Killarney which means we’re not that far off just need to plan our S & C better só that we don’t peek too soon and expect players to sustain the level of fitness when it matters in middle of June and the month of July
Thank you Willie Joe for putting up with us and our silly comments,you I believe have got it right that Dublin were the better team,hopefully we can improve slightly for next year and bring Sam to Mayo
Defence for both teams was brilliant
No reason Mayo can’t organise a good defensive system.
Nice to see Kerry leave one behind them.
Wide open All Ireland again next year.
Liberal, if we had a ball of money would ya trust us to use it wisely? Given we struggle to grow grass on pitch it is hard to believe we would.
At senior level money is no issue, we probably one of the most expensive teams there is. underage coaching you are very much correct, but if look at structures over teams and see if can see any selection trends/biases be they geographic or biological ya might find some.
Watching the match it was like a game of chess. Battles within the game. Dubs deserved it better team. I thought Gough had a great game as he let the game flow , we are miles off from a management point , first time in a very long time no connacht player on team of the year , so that shows the importance of leauge as we had 1 2 3 in leauge with mayo galway and roscommon .
Don’t get the gloom here ha we are really not that far away. Yes we’ve stuff to work on but we will get there if we fix our defence problems and get our fitness levels up so we can close out games were not far off at all. Oh and not peak to soon would help to ha..
It was a poor enough final not a great game and dublin were the better team just had that edge.
James Mccarthy said might be his last time in a blue Jersey and wouldn’t be surprised if he retires a long with a few others.
Feel bad for Clifford in fairness he’s some player and Hope he doesn’t get to much abuse down in kerry!
Unfortunaetly Clare we are miles away. We havent won Sam in 72 years we dont have a defensive plan. And not one of our management team has ever won a senior inter county all ireland but has lost a few and we still persist.
@glorydays ah think I know how long we haven’t won it in :p haha
Weve a really young team I think they will bounce back next year honestly don’t think were miles off it but sure each to their own !
What’s everyone’s thoughts on the first year of the Round Robin?
All the quarters seemed well below par, while Dublin were never truly troubled by Monaghan.
Is it just a more convoluted way of getting the top 2 into the final? There was no real surprise package team that went on a good run this year, Monaghan didn’t beat a whole lot to make the semi and lost 3 games all season. Cork were perhaps the most improved team but again went down meekly enough come the knockouts
Moment of the chship was probably the Sunday where Galway somehow – with a freak couple of minutes – found themselves knocked from top spot and a soft quarter final, into a stay of execution match against Mayo – who blew top spot also on the same day. I think both teams are ultimately way off the two finalists but it still had a big turning point feel to the season at the time
It wasn’t a great final but intense all the same.
The winners write the story but I thought Dublin were lucky. Clifford kicks a few of them and it’s Dessie Farrell being asked the tough questions.
Cluxton was top class to be fair and no reason for him to be going anywhere. Thought McCaffrey made a huge impact and Fenton is just a real leader, can’t remember seeing him have a bad game. On the other side Murchan was left on P Clifford far too long and I’m not sure starting Kilkenny worked.
On the Kerry side Morley was exceptional as was P Clifford in the second half, felt Sean O’Shea went missing when needed or ran out of steam. In fairness to Clifford he can’t be accused of that, kept trying to the end. A bit like Kilkenny, Stephen O’brien was better this year from the bench.
I always remember taking an u12 team to a blitz in Kildare. Teams from all over the country. I was talking to a chat from Kilmacud.
We had a large panel of 24 player , he told me they had 190 u12 boys registered with the club !! 1 coach for every 10 boys and all overseen by full time development officer.
Population and money does definitely help the Dubs . Absolutely no reason why they shouldn’t be contesting an All Ireland evey year bur fair play to them they deserved their win yesterday.
“I’m not sure starting Kilkenny worked”
Imagine reading this comment a year ago! Just goes to show…
Must say it was a very ballsy move by Dessie to leave him out of quarter and semi. Like Shane Walsh against Armagh/Mayo I thought it was set up for him to put in a lights out performance but he was bang average yesterday again
There was lots of comments here (look, understandably wishful thinking – every fanbase said the same no doubt) earlier in year about “desperation” by Dessie bringing players back, at the end of the day Mannion and Cluxton were the difference in them winning yesterday. I’m honestly delighted for Dessie on a personal level, seems a real genuine GAA man, very much unfairly maligned (unsure whether it’s his lack of charisma or whatever but he’s had to put up with some amount of nonsense the last few years – yet was classy as ever in victory yesterday)
My Ball, 100% but in fairness player retention is a huge issue as well as distractions both socially and from other sports than other counties don’t have to contend with to near the same extent. So it balances out to a degree
Now the population issue is of course massive and in truth I can’t ever see Dublin not regularly making the latter stages anytime soon due to that alone. Its fairly wishful thinking, imo, to think they won’t pull out some generational footballers very soon again when some of the current crop hang up their boots. There’s undoubtedly a few gems waiting to be uncovered in the club champ in the coming weeks
I suspect they’ll be in full experimental mode in the league next year
I was in attendance yesterday, thought it was a very good game taking into account the conditions. Ball handling would have been very difficult and there were tons of turnovers.
Dublin prob the better team just. Though a draw felt the most likely result throughout, Kerry had actually gotten into a great position with paudie taking the game by the scruff of the neck in 3rd quarter but then the goal from Whytes mistake was a killer.
The other 2 big factors were David clifford having a bit of a mare shooting in the 2nd half and the introduction of McCaffrey who terrified kerry every time he got the ball.
Mannion was probably motm but Cluxton was outstanding I thought, he bought a sense of calm to a frantic game, flawless on kickouts and nailed difficult frees.
There will be a flurry of retirements now in Dublin so it’s bound to have an impact on them ,mccarthy, Fitzsimons and rock going for starters which will definitely hurt them.
Deserving champions but They are not unbeatable by any means, a lot of the precision and ruthlessness which was a hallmark of the 6 in a row team well and truly gone.
The guys saying McCaffrey had no impact must have been watching a different game to me. He was the winning of the game, terrified the life out of kerry anytime he got the ball.
For all the ott flak clifford is getting I thought Con was wretched also and kilkenny was weirdly subdued also for a man who had a point to prove
Just putting it out there. You see McCarthy having such an influence on matters this year. Would Keegan not be thinking, feck this ‘retirement lark’ and jump back in for one last dance? And guess what. Give him the no.6 jersey!
Looks like Joyce staying on another year for Galway, lots of rumours of Cian O’Neill jumping ship though
You suspect PJ will only do one more, but there ain’t a whole lot of candidates putting their hands up either within the county anyway. Not sure the county board will have the appetite to go outside the county again either after so many disaster stories, and Shefflin isn’t exactly pulling up trees on the hurling side. Is it too taboo in this day and age for a proud Mayo man to defect a few miles south again?
Having watched the second half back again this morning I need to row back on my comments about McCaffrey. His direct running did cause Kerry defence problems. Intensity levels overall were phenomenal. We could and did match that intensity for a number of years in the last decade but couldn’t do it now with young and inexperienced players. Do feel though that we will grow into it but it may take a few years. Dublin and Kerry are the two strongest teams in the country followed in third by Derry. Then there are a pack of teams including us who are a bit behind. I expect a number of Dublin senior players will now retire and I expect Kerry to be the pick of the bunch next year. Our aim must be to improve and to close the gap. We need patience with our new players, need to develop a defensive and kick out strategy. I expect that we will use the league differently next year. Winning the league title was nice but irrelevant as regards championship. Two of the best three counties operated in Div 2 this year while of the three teams who finished 1, 2 and 3 in the league, only ourselves made last eight of championship and did not do very well once there.
I wouldn’t be so sure we will see a raft of retirements from Dublin. Why would they. The lure of 10 Celtic crosses for the 3 older stagers will be strong and I’m sure Farrell will use them sparingly in league and early championship.
Apart from Dean Rock, the others are top performers …along with some newer lads being integrated the Dubs will continue to feature at business end far in to the future.
@2hops they may go for another year but James Mccarthy already hinted he might be going and rock probably will and I don’t think they will be great once these guys go they didn’t blood new players didn’t mix young & old a rookie mistake even my dub mates said that they will be in trouble for a few years because of this once the majority of the 6 in a row guys do go .
Yes they won yesterday but they are no where near their top form of 6 in a row you’d wonder how much gas they left in them to keep going .
Alot of the 6 in a row team have already gone McMahon cooper o Sullivan McCauley Flynn Andrews o gara brogan.the Dublin team from 2013 on evolved .it wasn’t the same players.the have an enormous playing population and will continue to be a major force
Yeah but a lot of guys also came back this year to. Obvs wasn’t the same players . But the likes of mansion mcaffery cluxton rock etc who came back this year made a huge impact to them
They don’t need to be as good as the 6 in a row team @Clare. They only need to be slightly better than the rest, which they are, in my opinion anyway.
Who knows , they might change their mind a couple of times between now and 24 but the tone & body language last night suggested mcarthy got them to come back in to leave it in a way that the more novice members of the panel were passed a baton of winning mentality , he mentioned how the loss to both ourselves and kerry in the last two semi finals wasnt good enough , the impression i got (i kid you not ) was them losses hurt . I dont think ive ever in my life seen such a ruthless winning mentality , i actually was almost intimidated by it , its wild scary .
I expect four retirements at least and although everyone is praising the cluxton move , i think it will come back to haunt Dublin in the future .
Mayo need a new coach , if we dont get a new defensive coach and retire Donie Buckley im afraid our progress next season will be limited . Donie Buckley has been a fantastic coach down the years but we need new structure , style and plan , that has to come from a new voice .
Yea those lads came back and made a huge impact and over the last few years they have introduced Howard and scully murchen lahiff bugler and lee gannon and probably a few more in the pipeline.Dublin will continue to win all Irelands on a regular basis
Raheny have a young buckeen playing for them there Sean who has quite a few years on Cluxton…he might inherit the great one’s gloves.
I don’t know why people are questioning Donie Buckley. He is the coach and is only coaching the team the way that he is told to by McStay and Rochford. It’s certainly not Buckley’s fault that we had little or no defensive shape, that responsibility lays higher up the food chain.
@The West is best but Buckley is the defensive coach he should be coming up with defensive plans the blame does fall on Buckley in a way to tbh not just mcstay.
Dubs also shoved aside their young goalie when cluxton was brought back in and a few other young guys to which I thought wasn’t that great but sure got them the all Ireland. But hard on the younger guys who were shoved aside.
West is best… Sure what is the point in him being there so If he’s only doing what he’s told?.. Could Rochford not do that himself?
The reason he’s there is to “coach” is it not?
Would you question why Kerry didnt want him and then look at kerry inroads in defensive structure and intensity since tally went in . To simply say he follows instruction from higher up is utter nonsense . Ive read several articles about Buckley over the years where he studys other sports and brings them ideas with him . hes the inventor not just a delivery man .
Well Sean, he didn’t “invent” much of a defensive structure for mayo this year did he… Horseshit
Cluxton and fitsimons had great games yesterday mc carthy done a lot of spade work , albeit he didn’t star yesterday talk of retiring them is nonsense , they are invigorated with yesterday’s win , all done the 70 mins plus too , we should concentrate on ourselves and find a cb and a midfield pairing let’s have a look in the mirror we’re as far away now as ever
Pick the best 15 from Kerry Dublin and Mayo.Then you will know where we are.
pick the best 15 from Mayo Kerry and Dublin and then we know where we are.
I see where west is best is coming from and agree with him, when Buckley was there previously we had some evidence of a defensive system and tackling ability (why we are so poor tackling now is another question).
Donie was not down as defensive coordinator that I am aware, that’s a presumption most make. Below is list published in WP as being the management team, Donie a coach and selector, he may relay ideas, plans and thoughts all he likes but the decision rests at the top of the chain, if the Manager listens to all Donie has to say and goes “lord Donie thats great stuff…….. but….. you have to work it around a bit to include this ingenious QB/+1 role” that is what Donie would have to work to:
Manager: Kevin McStay
Coach and assistant manager: Stephen Rochford
Coach and selector: Donie Buckley
Coach, selector with additional responsibility for club liaison: Damien Mulligan
Coach, selector with additional responsibility for county under-20 liaison: Liam McHale
Head of Medical: Dr Seán Moffat
Head of Athletic Performance: Conor Finn
Psychologist: Niamh Fitzpatrick
Lead physiotherapist: Garrett Coughlan
Nutritionist: Evan Regan
Logistics: Seán Finnegan
Communications: Liam Horan
Donie is in private sector terms a hired external contractor, he will do as contracted to and take his er….mileage
Ahh lads if you think Buckley just turns up to go to a whiteboard and be told by mcstay what to do and then rely that to the players , I give up .
Sean I am sure the extended management team relay plenty of plans and Ideas, but they wont all be taken on board. Whoever had idea about the QB/+1 role that is what we went all in on and once all in on that it severely restricts defensive plan possibilities.
Donie has many jobs in the business as we were all told in lead up to appointment. he is a contractor from out the Mayo company. he can suggest away but the buck stops elsewhere.
Buckley wasn’t good enough for kerry and kerry defensive is pretty good now since they have a new defensive coach.
Buckley is hardly told by mcstay and Co on what to do he doesn’t seem like the kind of guy to be bossed around.
We will see what Buckley brings next year but I don’t have great fait in him tbh.
I understand that the Dublin players were out on their feet in the last 20 minutes and a lot going down with cramp_either a lack of fitness or too much mileage, Kerry could take advantage of it.
While Kerry have won the most all Ireland’s they have also lost the most.
A great advantage to be playing in Munster.
What was very noticeable yesterday was that neither Defences coughed up damn all frees yesterday , we have a habit of doing that for years our achilles heel in tight games, another thing both middle thirds worked their socks off , no passengers but the dubs I think we’re a superior team , kerry were beat twice e in championship so should have no qualms dubs went unbeaten be it they could only draw with the sheep lovers
Clare McStay is the boss, he tells the rest what to do, they can suggest all they want he takes on board what he wants and ignores what he sees fit. If he is not told what to do then he would be the manager so to speak.
If recall Rochford and Mulligan were both defenders in their playing days as well….
I am not advocating for Buckley by the way, I felt he had been involved for to many years already, even with good few new members in panel what had he to add new after so many years with the rest of the panel.
But playing devils advocate, he is a coach, managers manage. Two of the other three coaches were defenders and we still had the system we had.
I see that we still can’t get away from criticism of the Mayo management,but we have to listen to Hulers on the ditch I suppose or even on the high stool,by the way Paddy Tally was involved with one of the finalists yesterday how did that go?,I believe that it was P Keane who got rid of Donie,so he might have been trying to deflect criticism from himself,I have actually read comments from players that he has coached and they give him great praise,perhaps you should look up L Keegans opinion of him,I believe that we should have a little patience and allow our management team more than a few months to make an impression,I believe that next year will show us that they are an outstanding management team
With all the talk about buckley v tally remember kerry lost the last 15 minutes 7pts to 2pts after being 3 pts ahead , where was tallys influence there? if this happened to mayo we’d hear nothing but mayo chokers, couldn’t hold a lead and more bullshit. For me kerry would have won but for the disastrous handpass that led to the Dublin goal which was almost worth 5 pts with momentum and crowd support.
I think Buckley getting unfair criticism here. I doubt very much he invented the dreadful defensive structure and his highly respected by the players. From the sideline it looks McStay Rochford are calling the shots.
Yesterday’s game was highly tactical, as supermac says high turnovers accounted by difficult conditions and ferocious defending.
We need to put in place a defensive structure that players are comfortable with and believ in. Players going off form is worrying. Our only exposure to Buckley is in pre match warm ups and he works harder than anyone.
We’d have been torn apart by both teams yesterday.
Kerry’s defence did really well yesterday, they were in the game right to the end.
We should try and tempt Paddy Tally or similar to Mayo. We need to be honest with ourselves, we don’t have that defence coach specialist in the county.
Both Defensive structures and intensity levels at the back were top notch yesteday . Some team has to lose but it wasnt down to structure or intensity at the back . Tally has a seriously good reputation , do we have to go against the grain all the time in Mayo . Buckley has a decent rep but not as good as tally that is the common narrative , Cian O Neill was good too and Mayo players at the time thought highly of him . Again i go to the word on the street and Cian O neill trajectory has been moving upwards whilst buckley has been stagnant . I dont think our tackling has improved at all , you get the impression our squad is working off an outdated version , one of five yrs ago where as the game at the top level evolves every year . Perhaps its the stage of development of players too and im being unfair on Buckley , i still feel a new voice is needed in this sector though.
Maybe I’m being harsh on Buckley but was his first year as defensive coach but I just hope they up their game next year and I think pressure will be on them to improve next year defensive wise .
Interesting to see pj giving it another year for Galway if pressure is on any manager its on him more so then mcstay & co!
@corrick ah hopefully we see improvements next year and I’ve no doubt we will and come bouncing back but end of day you have to ask questions of our defensive system this year!
But sure time will tell next year if our ‘top class management team ‘ can work it out ..!
Well the old ‘tackling’ advantage worked from 2012-2014 when lots of teams naively took the ball into contact.
Dublin then popularized patterns such as if you receive the ball moving away from goal you don’t turn and take on your man, you simply lay the ball off to a player running towards goal.
Defence in the modern game is more about organisation, pods of defenders, sufficient leg strength and agility and huge workrate all over the field.
In all fairness kerry s defence has improved dramatically. Turnover s by the dozen. One mistake for the goal. Some bad wides . Sean Burke your spot on. We have the players. We beat Dublin in 21 . Same teams pretty much. We have gone backwards 2023. Let’s hope the dream management team stop s dreaming about failed systems because our bunch of players have proved in the past that they are good enough to challenge. This is not a 2010 2018 team that jh inherited. Its hard to believe with aos and carr inside we didn’t put one high testing ball in 150 minutes of championship football. Against cork and louth. Novice stuff. Dublin won with as usual a nice spread of scoring. Or is mansion now supposed to be a marquee forward.
Surely Rochford, with all his experience and reputation can manage being a defensive coach himself? Why does he need Buckley? He was a defender himself and I’m sure putting a solid defensive structure in place isn’t splitting the fuckin atom.. Look at dub and kerry… 2 strong cbs in morely and small.. Pacey half backs who can defend and man markers in Tom o sullivan and mick Fitz.. Drop a sweeper in when required but mayo don’t have these type of players unfortunately
Corick, not many hurlers in Mayo only handful of clubs so doubt many commenting here.
Management had a full season, and were not newbies to the game, sadly this year they did not achieve their goal of winning Connacht and progressing onwards, but we have good players and great financial backing so I to believe we can do better next year.
It has gone under the radar but Kerry had a very mature side out there yesterday David Clifford and Diarmuid O’Connor were the two youngest starters both 24. Hession Conroy Callinan Eoghan McLaughlin Carney McBrien McHugh are all younger than that and had regular gametime for Mayo this year, for Dublin Lee Gannon was their youngest player aged 23 with a big gap to their next youngest player.
Several big players from both sides are well past 30 and there wasn’t much depth on either bench really
Gizmo,our management team had a few months unless you can magic something no one else can,we achieved a quiet a successful season two trophies,beating Kerry where they had not been beaten for a quarter of a century, perhaps not so many hurlers ,but a lot of high stool players,hopefully a few of the players that you mentioned who got trials in the FBD will with a year of s/c will come good ,thank you again for your insight
Kick it in. Morley wasn’t half the player last year. Mcbrien is decent. Callinan and coyne too. Get plunkett back. Paddy’s decent. We have to nail down a number 6. For years we couldn’t nail down a number 3 but still managed to get to all those final s. Maybe Rochford could operate a defensive plan. He definitely cannot operate an offensive one. After watching his 4 years in donegal and this year I’m sure about that. Mcstay was a forward himself..he should be able to do better with that. Next year will be a big year for them
@corick ah corrick I love your optimi bit like me as i said before ha ! But it certainly wasn’t a quite successful season.
Kerry will be saying that they had a poor season now since the failed to win Sam and that’s what top teams to concentrate on sam.
Was great to beat kerry in killarney but were did that get us in the end ? It only made kerry come firing back to reach another final again.
Anyways hopefully heres to a better season next year and we all get a break from the rollercoaster as others have said that is mayo gaa haha!
Well a football year/Season I should have said, November to June, apologies. A full season was plenty for Farrell and Dooher and co to get their systems in place.
As the dictionary would say trials are a series of contests that test a competitor’s skill and ability, unfortunately some players were not part of training panel but brought in to make up numbers for the preseason warmup games while main team players had other business to attend to.
To meet the trial definition they would really need to have been in training with the panel a few weeks, assessed by management, tested by S&C team etc. to meet the “series” element of definition, not just a one time thing. Maybe this year they will. I’d imagine between lads walking away from set-up, retiring and being dropped etc. there will likely be 6-7 spots to be filled. While Management thought the rebuilding work was already done for them thats a could bit of crack plastering needed.
Giz. That’s a damn good post. On the money
Tiny margins, while Dessie Farrell and Dublin bask in the glory of a deserved All Ireland win today. The game was level with 3 of the 6 minutes of added time played. 1-13 a side. An emotional ,James McCarthy went on to lift the Sam Maguire Cup , To the watching neutral observer, a calm almost to the point of detachment, Dessie Farrell looked up to the Hogan Stand and allowed himself a half smile. While Ref David Gough and his assistants had a very good game , they would have had a better game had James McCarthy gotten a first yellow much earlier in the game , James only picked up yellow in the 55th minute, 21 minutes left to play. James McCarthy had a very poor game, bringing the ball into contact time after time coughed up possession time after time. His efforts a tackling left allot to be desired. The effort from James McCarthy was as immence as always in his long and gloried career, but yesterday lady luck shone on James McCarthy and Dessie Farrell . To be honest James McCarthy should have been sent off, and his efforts on the ball were a negative for Dublin. Were both captains on the day David Clifford and James McCarthy just trying too hard?. Neither were near their best but not for the lack of effort. Had Kerry won the game which they could easily have done, I think Dessie would have to answer some serious questions today as regards leaving James McCarthy on the field. On the other side of the coin Dessie should have allowed himself a very big smile with all the big decisions he got right. Who would have thought it?. Paul Mannion back, Man of the Match in the final. Stephen Cluxton back, imperious as ever, two points scored and all his restarts instant and perfect. Colm Basquell comes good, And Jack McCaffery what an impact sub?, In game of very fine margins Dessie got really big decisions right despite the doubts of the massess. He nailed his colours to the mast at the start of the Championship and boy did it pay off. I wouldnt write off James McCarthy, Mick Fitzsimmons or Stephen Cluxton going for 10 All Ireland medals next year. With Leinster the way it is, and the tail end of the championship season so compressed, the home from home comfort of a Carbon Neutral Croke Park, The Dubs ability to win the tightest of matchs at the death, they only need to peak for a period of one month. Read it and weep the rest of us.
My manager of the year award goes to Monaghans Vinnie Corey, Dessie comes second .
Gizmo,wha games did we play in November,or for that matter December,I must have been on my cruise to Australia at that time?
Craggy, you can operate all you like, unfortunately the rest of kerrys forwards aren’t good enough.. And their midfield or half backs didn’t chip in.. Alot like ourselves.. If ya don’t have the players, not much ya can do.
Kicking the ball over the bar as simple as it sounds, or under is what will win games.. Dublin did it when needed under pressure.. Small with one off the right too, basquel had one off both. We were talking here about 2 footed players last week.
You’d have to wonder how much of a monster we actually created in 2013
Dublin were very mediocre in that final, we really underperformed and allowed them fall over the line unconvincingly enough. Safe to say they’ve never looked back at all since in All Ireland finals – and in so many of them they were level or even a point or two down coming down the stretch. In a parallel universe we win that day and we could have snapped up a further 2 or 3 while Dublin may well have had to contend with a more up and down record thereafter.
People are saying we are close – I don’t think so
Have mayo a definsive plan? No
Have mayo a kick out strategy? – No
Have mayo a top class forward who can kick 5/6 points a game from play? – No
Have mayo the physical conditioning to last with Dublin or Kerry? – I don’t think so
Have mayo a culture of excellence? – No
Are mayo being ran correctly at CB level? – Absolutely not.
That’s a lot to work on. And I suppose above all else have we the players to win an AI?
I’d argue that we are tied 4th best team in the country with Tyrone and Galway. Dublin, Kerry and Derry are ahead of us and the gap could start to widen then narrow in the coming years.
Green and red …agree
I understand from a good football man that was at the final that the body language of the Dublin team before they got the goal was of a team that had thrown in the towel.
I understand that O,Hara gave mention to McBreen as a possible all star
Lads, will we ever see the day that we win it, the Dubs celebrated last night around the City as if they didn’t win in years.
Pure madness in some pubs last night.
Imagine what it he like if Mayo win some day ?,
I’m afraid that I’d have to agree with Green&Red too. We have a long way to go.
@Bate the blanket yeah I heard from my mates that it was madness out haha I decided not to venture out to depressing for us mayo ones haha
If mayo ever do win it the whole county would go absolutely nuts for sure actually I should change that to when mayo win it :p haha
Ah Corick, where you get the cruise to Oz from that is some journey?
No wonder you cannot recall the December challenge game with our Northern brethren after all the Christmas BBQs down under you, think 11or maybe 12 of our starting championship team would even have started that day as well.
They team selections were very consistent all year.
.
The stand debt is the elephant in the room as regards everything , we have to come up with a fundraising plan to take the slack off that . It’s no use going over who fooked up and blaming this and that , the debt is there and it needs to be tackled . It’s been highlighted 100s of times by better equipped people than me that there is a very genuine cohort of supporters who could take some of the slack if it was touted in the right way .
Management were offered the position in early August last year. Not October or November. This myth that they only had half a season to train and develop is rubbish. No other IC team would be training in early august. Management had the same time frame as everyone else.
Kick it in. The players were good enough on 2021. against Dublin. Scored points from distance that night. The core of that team operates today. Ok only 5 showed up in the final. We missed a pen. Even playing bad we weren’t far away. This year we were as far out as a lighthouse
This year you have to factor in how much of a fook up playing three championship games on the trot was . I’d argue any team would struggle to be right . There is also the stage of development a lot of our players are at as regards s&c .
Far from a vintage Dublin performance and in truth, a poor final from a technical point of view. Dublin deserved to win it, and win it by more possibly, and in that there was no surprise to me.
However, it was a very “unlike” Dublin performance in the opening half as Dublin constantly chose the wrong option with the ball, took it into contact and forced 2 or 3 efforts for points that were never on, e.g. Howard with one off his left and off balance. Jim Gavin must have been wondering what had happened to “the process”? From watching Dublin over the last 10 years those failings have never been evident as much as they were in that opening 35 minutes. There was no “flow” to their game and everything seemed laboured and sloppy. The weather didn’t help and Kerry were tackling like demons but it was still strange to see Dublin so blunt. Cluxton and Howard kept the supply coming though and their insane work rate covered the cracks of their sloppy 1st half.
Dublin are a second half team though and you knew they’d fix and repair on the go, and that’s what they did in the second half. Fenton grew into the game and started to dominate Barry and O’Connor, while Fitzsimons kept his battle with Clifford as tight as anyone could have hoped for. When he slipped he had Davy Byrne and John Small to dig him out. On the opposite side of the ledger though, McCarthy can count himself very, very lucky to have finished that game on the field. I’m a huge admirer of his but yesterday was his poorest game all season. He should have been yellow carded early in the 1st half and probably sent of in the second.
It was hard on Gavin White that the turning point of the game hinged on his mistake because I though he was one of the best performers out there up to that. Not many got on as much ball as him and I don’t think he misplaced a pass prior to the interception. Then Dublin went and did what Dublin do when they smell blood. Goal.
Kerry wasted a huge amount of ball in the rush to keep with Dublin and in truth some of their efforts at goal, including Cliffords, were bad misses. Looking at it again last night I thought to myself that if Mayo performed like Kerry did and missed the shots that Kerry did, we would be lambasted from all angles. The Yerras always seem to come out of a defeat painted in a much better light than anyone else.
Having seen the Dubs up close in their game v us, I left Croker that day knowing that no-one was going to stop them. The insane drive, aggression (not dirty!), willingness to tackle, dive and block was there for all to see. When your game isn’t quiet “at it”, then you just make damn sure that you out-work your opponent and yesterdays win for Dublin had it’s foundations in that principle.
As for the future? Well, Kerry were still relying on O’Brien and Geaney to share the burden of scoring but both those lads have big mileage on the clock. The Cliffords will be there but they need a naother midfielder as Barry isn’t of the quality needed to win All Irelands. Murphy and O’Sullivan will need replacing too. The Dubs, it’s all smiles now but they will know deep down that bringing back a 41 year old, relying on two 35 year olds in McCarthy and Fitzsimons and the loss of effectiveness/form of O’Callaghan and Kilkenny are not the cornerstones for future success. It might not be obvious now, but they possibly have the biggest refit to do of all the teams.
@Craggy boglands, Mayo deservedly beat Dublin in 2021, it was’nt the same Dublin as 2023. Dublin lacked all discipline on the day when Mayo rallied in the second half. Ref Conor Lane should have sent off no less than 3 Dublin players, Paddy and John Small and James McCarthy in normal time. Colm Basquell got a black unfortunate for him and Mayo got a few softish frees, nothing nearly enough to make up for the 3 red cards that should have been shown.
Dublin were calm and composed yesterday and stuck to the game plan. They were happy to let Kerry attack down the 12/15 side secure enough in the knowledge that the conversion rate on this side for Kerry had been poor all year (from play and frees). This is particularly so in the first half where Kerry had five misses from the left (one free and four from play) from a total of 11 shots in the first half (scoring only 1-04)
The weather and Gough both conspired to ensure turnovers were higher than normal and I don’t think it was really down to a higher than normal intensity in the tackle.
Dublin’s sideline were decisive; Gannon who had a good first half was whipped off, for McCaffrey, early in the second half after a bad wide and poor foot pass (over the sideline); he was also on a yellow. McCaffrey’s pace after coming on just wiped Kerry, while Kerry just ran out of good enough players to bring in.
When the Kerry half forward line ran out of gas (less than 10mins after McCaffrey came in) Moynihan and O’Brien were subbed off and O’Shea just couldn’t keep going so drifted deeper towards the Dublin goal and almost out of the game by the end. Dublin still had Scully and Rock to bring in to steady the ship.
Dublin were more direct than Kerry with a higher percentage of attacks straight down the middle. They have played with far less width this year than was the case in the Gavin years. Dublin also changed it up; first half they had a slower build up to their scoring attacks (part of this was Costello’s poor handling for turnovers) whereas in the second half Dublin went direct, both kicking or with pure pace, leading to scores more often. This is coupled with Dublin’s ability to score centrally between 21 and 45 (13 points) – with Cluxton’s opening point from the 45 being the furthest out and furthest wide of the central channel of all of Dublin’s scores. Just look at some of Mannion’s or Fenton’s points from play when needed in the second half. Dublin took just FOUR shots inside the 21 scoring 1-02 with the other hitting the crossbar. Kerry on the other hand took 11 shots from inside the 21 scoring just 1-04 (more pressure on kicker from play or having a narrower angle) and 14 shots outside 21.
Dublin were also successful on pressing Kerry into kicking long, at times from kickouts, and had a clear plan (which they executed) to press on hop-balls and free-kicks when Kerry in defence. Dublin also set traps for Kerry while playing out, one of which was the turn over for the goal. Kerry on the other-hand pressed kickouts in first half only and Cluxton delivered. In second half when on top Kerry obviously had decided not press but also let Dublin out far too easy – odd given that Cluxton was highly unlikely to wander up the pitch.
Overall the best prepared team won!
Hard one to take as we only have ourselves to blame.
The goal was criminal and we were fairly in control at that stage.
It’s funny how David Clifford gets critised with just 2 from play,
Neither Con, Costello, Kilkenny scored from play but ofcourse history is written by the winners.
James Mccarthy was a lucky boy to stay on the field and Gough clearly bottled that call.
Dublin edged it marginally but 2024 is wide open.
Leantimes. What’s different from Dublin in 21 to 23 in personnel. A misfiring con o callaghan?
The egregious part of the non yellow for James Mccarthy is that Tadgh Morley deservedly gets a yellow for boot in on the pickup.
On the very next play James Mccarthy gives away a free for boot in on the pickup.
I’m sorry but boot in on the pickup when you’ve correctly just given a yellow for the same to one team and it’s a player with already several aggressive fouls. It was a total non call.
Is my memory correct in saying it was McCarthy who dangerously punched diarmuid in the neck in 21 or was it someone else ?
Gizmo another one coming soon,but the football season starts in January no getting away from that,all the players that you do kindly pointed out only got their chance in the FBD I am sure that it will pay dividends in the future,as far as my maths can tell me is from January to June is six months,perhaps your maths teacher gave you a different answer,craggy will I am sure take the tree off his shoulder next year when Sam reaches Mayo
@Craggyboglands, a bit more than that Stephen Cluxton left in 21 after a newspaper reported on early morning breaches of Covid restrictions in Dublin training . Dont think Paul Mannion or Jack McCaffery were available in 2021 either.
@Sean Burke, nothing wrong with your memory, and he ran 30 yards from the scene immediately afterwards. A great player no doubt but far too often strayed the wrong side of the line, and got away with it. How Tomas O Shea reckons that hes the greatest Dublin player of all time is beyond me. For example Brian Fenton and Srephen Cluxton are on the same team, different class, different class.
Ah Corick you so right but unfortunately not everyone is as honest and upholding of regulations as your good self and I.
Would you believe it but some unscrupulous intercounty management teams went back training before January and even played unsanctioned games in that period??
Ours must not have gotten the memo on the training dates, a simple clerical error no doubt but like the many other learning opportunities they have been given this season that mistake likely won’t happen again.
Please send on the Australian cruise operator you use if don’t mind, I’m currently waiting on the spaceX shuttle to Mars, but a bit like our wait for Sam it’s dragging on a bit and no sign of it coming soon so be a good one to tide me over.
I have to say @Clare and @Corick I admire both yer enthusiasm. Ye might be right no point looking back hope springs eternal.
Big Homecoming for The Dublin Team tonight in Dublin as they return to Dublin,
Looking at the news there could anything up 300 to 400 Dublin Supporters there to Welcome them Home !!.
Glorydays,as I have often said I have never crossed Corick bridge without expecting to win,even in 1981,Tuam 1982 and many other days,I am confident that we y end our search next year
Gizmo sixth of January 2024,whilst I have not actually booked yet I will probably book that one,it will give me time to enjoy different locations and I will be back in time to enjoy watching Mayo in their quest for Sam,you should really try one we have enjoyed the Cuba,Mexi and American cruise,and European cruises
The Nordic fjord one with the northern lights is spectacular. Although don’t always capture the lights it’s spectacular scenery all the same.
Hard to know how many of the Dubs will retire, if any sense you’d imagine several would go out on a guaranteed high, but knowing there is such a very small pool of teams that can realistically beat them may tempt some to stay longer than should.
I think we can be in a very good position from two years onwards. But we need to start the ‘body transformation’ of the physiques of our players. Ryan gets it, he’s physically transformed. Too many others are too slow over ten yards and too weak in contact. On a recent interview Ryan talked about his diet and how he has bulked up to 79/80kg.
It ain’t about slim stamina builds anymore. You need to be built more like a gymnast than an 800m runner.
I do enjoy river cruises but a long distance one really shortens the winter months,and of course we have the wonderful Ownmore river on my doorstep
” Time is what we want most, but what we use worst” – William Penn.
The remains of the day today, like the clean up of a concert of litter that was entertaining, but with bad weather.
Yesterday’s final was nowhere near a classic, the rain ruined it, and affected us, like an inexperienced crew out at sea against the bad weather, we failed to get our catch of fish yesterday, Dublin, the sea and the elements won over, by keeping that special catch at sea.
Being an avid Kerryman up in Croke Park yesterday, this is what defined our final against Dublin. To sum up yesterday, Kerry were strangled by fear, conservatism was the only show in town for us.
Many Congratulations! to Dublin yesterday, in the end, they were the better team, only in the end. Why is this I hear you say, well, both sides were level in overtime on the 73rd minute.
David Moran’s influence was badly missing yesterday, he would have nullified Fenton, who scored 3 marvellous points. Kerry’s build ups yesterday took far too long, we were too fearful, this gave the Dublin backs a lot of confidence, and they knew this. Dublin pushed our attackers out into the wings, it worked, their half backs, midfielders and forwards scored, none of our midfielders, nor our backs scored. Changes were made too late on the sideline. Jack McCaffery, while not as good a player as he was back in 2019, has bulked up a lot, he’s presence caused us huge problems with his running, dragging the spine of our half backs out of position in clearing a bridgeway for Fenton and Mannion to attack. Basquel was immense in the corner, pulling two of our defenders towards him at times, that created more space.
You see Dublin concentrated on 3 things, all strategic; Recalling experience to steady their ship in the rough waters of the last 10 minutes of the match, in calling back into the fold, the three boys this year, placing dangerous scorers at influential start points across the pitch, thirdly, their ecomincal use of the ball in the high percentages scoring range of their kickers.
It all worked for them.
Gouge, the Referee, did not have a good game, but he was not the reason we lost. We simply were not tough enough in the final minutes, no plan b, Bríon O’ Beáglaíoch taking the ball into the tackle in the last attack.
The turning point of the whole match, was the René Huigatta Colombia 1990 World Cup style, kamikaze messing around at the back between Gavin White and Shan Ryan, our goalkeeper, it is bound to end in tears playing with fire like this. When I play soccer, I defend from the front, I always score a goal, pouncing like a vulture on a mistake in the opposition messing around between defenders and a goalkeeper.
Fitzsimons was very effective on David Clifford, but David still scored and made the goal, his kicking was off, like a boy trying to persuade a girl to like him in romance, he tried too hard, didn’t work. Geaney was excellent yesterday. Always plays well v Dublin. Kerry will probably end up with 3 retirements now, but one thing’s fir certain, Dublin will from 2024, be in retrograde, their sun is about to set on a marvellous and history making few years. Thing’s will level out from next year. Will give the rest of us all more hope, Mayo too. Dublin will still be tough and awkward, but no more All-Ireland’s for a long time.
David Clifford lost his Nana and Mum in 3 weeks last May, he dragged Kerry all on his own this year, so he deserves to be Player of the Year, whereas, McCarthy should have been sent off yesterday, he fouled continously as well, so this not the attributes of a Player of the Year accolade. McCarthy is brilliant, but he’s been getting away with a lot for years, so we condone this for being Player of the Year? What message is that sending out to younger people?
Morley destroyed Con O’ Callaghan, Costelloe was ineffectual too, Kilkenny did a lot of running, but he had no influence at all. Kerry are short 6 players, one scorer in every line, with a pocket scorer in the forwards, and an out and out Donaghyesque, Bomber style forward as a feeder. Our players are too nice, we lack that edge in the climax of a game. We have not improved on last year at all. This Kerry team is not as good as the 2000’s team, and nowhere near the Golden Year’s team. We did not learn from 2019 at all. I’m hurting today, but nobody died, we’ll be back again next year. We’re resilient down here. We’ve reached 20 semi finals in 23 years since 2000.
We’re still 6 – 3 up on head to head records in various categories v Dublin, if anyone on the forum wants to know, I’ll provide them with all the data of those records, so as long as we’re ahead of Dublin, I’m happy.
Form is temporary, class is permanent, it all comes down to records = tradition = future progression.
Lé cunamh dé.
Time to fold up the tent and move on.
Thanks again Willie Joe and Mayo posters.
Some amazing stats from yday on both sides. O’callaghan, costello and Kilkenny failing to score from play. Same with Kerry’s entire HF line. Reminds me of Mayo in some ways. This one will hurt Kerry as they’ll know the Dubs were barely in third gear. That will sting, knowing that their crown was pilfered like that without major fuss.
I dont think we’re as lacking in physicality as some might think.
Conroy, Ruane, ROD, Flynn, McBrien, Durcan, Coen
Aido, Cillian, Diarmuid, McLaughlin are aa good as you’ll get. Even Reape is well built for a goalie.
Hession’s s+c is visibly improving by the season.
Tuohy does need alot of work, and Coyne might be as big as he’ll get without compromising his dynamism which is needed as a corner back.
Carney is a difficult one, he has no real pace but lads aren’t bouncing of him either.He gets out muscled far too easily around the middle. Whatever pace he has will also be slightly compromised if he puts on a few more kilo’s of mass. Struggling to see what he added to the team this year, big danger of becoming a bit part squad player.
I see McStay is already going round having coffee with prospects from various clubs, lads who haven’t featured at IC level yet. I give him a hard time on here, but at least he’s wasting no time scouting new players. We might have a new “Plus 1” next year…
Liberal,
With all due respect,
Dublin were not in 3rd gear sweet mother of Jesus did you watch the match ?
Margie. I don’t know whither you read that somewhere or saw it for yourself about McStay. But either way I’m glad to hear it. No time to waste.
@Margie, there’s a certain mix of agility and power we are missing as a team average. Matthew Ruane you listed, he’s quick once into his stride but he’s pretty weak in contact for an inter county midfielder.
Stephen Coen is strong in contact but he’s not quick or agile.
You really need both.
Well. Sean O’Shea did kick a point from play but ya some strange stats.
Dublin deserved to win All Ireland yesterday, I thought they took control of the game in final quarter, forwards worked their socks off to close out the game, Fenton had a great second half, Dubs defence were brilliant, except for third quarter was a bit slack. The referee had a good game, he let the game flow, which was great to see on TV. I think James Mccarthy had a good game, he didn’t stand back from going into tackles very hard, even though some people think he was sticking the boot in a couple of times, well I thought there was no real dangerous play at all, one tackle yes but the rest were just dogged play, he’s some player.
Mayo team has to be at that level to breakthrough & win an all Ireland but S & C needs to be top notch plus Mayo needs to get a real good forwards coach to encourage them & drill into them to put the ball over the bar from 30/40 mts out. Midfield needs to be upgraded also, their has to be good fielders + mobility & able to take scores, + defend when needed. Mayo needs 4 or 5 speed merchants who can run at the opposition on a regular basis, get something like that moving & 2024 will be interesting to say the least.
Fair enough West Kerry, I might have exaggerated there, but just making a point. Yee were controlling the match in the third quarter and perhaps that fact will be the most disappointing, especially when the Dubs didn’t know if they were coming or going at times. Hard luck anyway, we certainly know the feeling.
@Nephin, you can take it as fact and I agree, it is good to see. Timing is good aswell before club championship. Gives players extra motivation.
@JP I 100% agree with ya re Coen. Not so much on Mattie, I think be holds is own well physically. Agree he needs a few yards to get going.
The type of player you describe is really hard found, basically James McCarthy? Tuohy probavly has all the pace and potential physical attributes to get to that level conditioning wise. Time will tell if his football skills will match.
I beileve Eoghan McLaughlin could become a monster player if he can brush up his basic skill level a few notches. Easier said than done, but its achievable in theory.
Micko,great post although I believe that the ref was good,Margie I am glad that you are giving out management team some credit only need Fish and Craggy to come on board now and encourage our young players,then the sky is the limit
Some national media lovefest over the 3 Dublin lads that won 9 All Ireland medals and Rock who won 7 or 8 and wondering will they or wouldn’t they retire now. Had to laugh at Joanne and co on RTE talking about the two tough years they had to suffer.
Mayo meanwhile still waiting since 1951, many top quality players and pure warriors Andy Moran,Tom Parsons,Seamus O’Shea,Colm Boyle,Lee Keegan,Keith Higgins etc had to retire without one senior AI medal and sadly Kevin Mc and DOC will likely join that list this winter.
Liberal,
Thank you,
Yes it’s very raw today,
We’ve lost the same number of finals to Dublin as yourselves but yesterday’s was the worst for me (after 2011 )
A sickner.
Yes west kerry, you have not beaten Dublin in a final since 1985..not quite as bad as mayos record since 89 however.
@Margie you are spot on about the problems with s&c
O,She’s for Kerry bulked up but at the expense of pace.
Good on you Margie. I’ve a feeling he wasn’t too far from Ballina.
Connaught Counties in general just don’t win many titles.
In football and Hurling many defeats were handed out over the past 50 years, Galway lost about 6 All Irelands before they won in 2018.
In Munster and Leinster it’s not just Football or Hurling titles that are won. Rugby in Leinster and Munster is strong, even Kerry have a few brilliant Basketball clubs that win National titles, add to this the number of players that are Professional Soccer players and have made it big in the Premiership, add to this the Athletes that come from Cork and won big events, Boxing also stronger in the 3 other Provinces as represented over the years at the Olympic games.
Is it the population base in Connaught, the training facilities or the Coaching that lags behind the rest of the Country?
@robert.i’d say the lack of frees in scoring positions was more down to gough letting tackles go more than good discipline. A stat i heard on radio yesterday that Cormac Costello hadn’t scored in a final since beating us in 2016 is hard to believe and didn’t do great yesterday either with just 1 free. Makes aidos scoring record in finals a bit less disastrous.
@Micko.
Hard luck yesterday. That could have gone either way. The old guard made the difference.
That goal ye conceded was the sort of soft goal that has cost us so many times.
I couldn’t believe what Gavin White was at. He lost the ball fair enough it happens but he then watched Paddy Small run past him to leave Paul Murphy 2 on 1. Basquel slipped it to Small and the rest is history. White didn’t seem to try and get back until it was too late. I can only assume White had a knock because he is probably one of the last Kerry players you would expect to be beaten in a foot race.
Last Week on the Podcast show is now up on all platforms.
One thing about Mayo under McStay we have a look of choir boys.Not much edge to most of our players if you take out the 2 O’Connors , Durcan , ROD , Flynn and maybe Hession and McBrien.The rest are all too nice.Ruane , Coen and Loftus now so called Senior players in important positions are all too nice , never see them booked or make 50/50 tackles .Just look at McCarthy yesterday thats the agression we need to get too.We need to get players in who play on the edge.In the 11 to 18 team you had warriors like Leeroy, Boyler, Barrett, Higgins, Vaughan, Seamus O’Shea.
Its time for McStay to recruit a few warriors like Horan did back in 2011, going nowhere with some of these alter boys.
The one thing that was noticeable yesterday was the defending from both teams which was tenacious aggressive feral over my dead body stuff.
I’ve thought for a while that we need to be more aggressive in our defending but it makes no difference whatsoever if we keep conceding silly goals.
@Achill75, have a look at the whole game again on the RTE player. McCarthy was lucky to finish the match, he was’nt good at all. By my reckoning his worst game in a blue shirt, gave the ball away several times. Risked getting himself sent off a number of times, the thought must have went through Dessie head a few times, will I substitute James McCarthy our lauded Captain and give oxygen to Kerry fans?. Dublin got away with it.
Leantimes
https://twitter.com/GAA__JOE/status/1686111270708051969?t=tWbkmra-snkRON8A7tW9zQ&s=19
Achill75, spot on.
McGinley put it very well last night. To win big games, you have to find the line, that area where the ref will just about let things go, then play on that line all game. If you don’t play up to that line you’ll get bullied out of it. And all the lovely tippy tappy football will come to nothing.
To get to that line you need lads that will die on the field, are prepared to go off injured just to win a breaking ball. Lads with no regard for their own safety. Dublin had it in spades yesterday.
McCarthy found the line, played beyond it, but got away with it. And a medal in his arse pocket.
Nice guys don’t win All Irelands.
@Achill75..and Mark’s brother Tomas said on the Sunday Game that James McCarthy was the greatest Dublin player of all time. (that would mean that he’s better than Brian Fenton and Stephen Cluxton) But their opinion could not be based on Sunday last showing. I have watched the whole match back again and Sunday’s All Ireland final was one of his worst games. He has had many super games, and will go down as a Dublin legend of the game …later on in this decade. After Sundays poor showing he probably needs to stay on another year, at least. Ten medals each for the three Musketeers, has a nice ring to it, and nine for another magnificent seven. Clucko could probably go until he’s 50.
A few players straight away with that egde come to mind on the club scene would be Caolan Crowe Garrymore, David McHale Knockmore, Marcus Park Knockmore ,Conor Diskin Claremorris, Eoin O’Donoghue Belmullet and Keelan McDonnell Ballinttubber
On watching the match again, at 18 minutes gone in the first half a very high ball into the Kerry square. Watch Dublins Lee Gannon ‘interact’ if thats the correct word? but Im pretty sure its not the correct word, with Kerry goalkeeper Shane Ryan. The ball has not yet began its decent earthwards . If any of ye seen the incident Id be interested in what ye thought of it.
I was there, 15 yards away from it from the high ball into Shane Ryan. Lee Gannon should have walked, he poleaxed / clothes lined Ryan. He made absolutely no attempt to go for the ball. Gough again bottled that decision, just like McCarthy’s take out on Graham.
Leantimes. I’m sure Cooper and Phily were still there. So they cancel the others out. Reality is we have gone well back from the so called horan ball. I’d have horan ball any day compared to what I saw that day against louth.
@Glorydays haha ah thanks we’ve lots to work on but never say never I’m sure we will mprove next year.
@liberal role in the tie I agree with you that dubs weren’t playing their 100% best that they can on Sunday for sure.
@micko hard luck good post ye will be back again next year .
The thing that irks me is that if that were mayo and we had won the all Ireland the previous year and lost this year we would have been called bottlers ha and the same goes for when Galway lost in 22 yet they were still favourites for this year again if that had been us in 22 ha..
Anyways I do think we will bounce back we beat the Dubs in 21 with pretty much the same team I don’t know how /why we slipped back soo much since maybe the hurt of 21 is still there .
Glad to hear mcstay is out at the clubs already!
On the lee gannon incident the Dublin medics spring into action at extraordinary speed only for gough to immediately dismiss them.if gough was so sure gannon wasn’t injured what exactly did he think happened there.gannon was never looking at the ball .the incident was never discussed on the Sunday as the dubs celebrations mustn’t be spoiled.McCarthy committed at least 3 yellow card offences.Costello punches Tom o Sullivan and gets a yellow card.Dublin continue to get away with this sort of stuff in croke park
Let’s win one Clare and they can call us whatever they want!
@Achill 75 have some of those players not played before, what age bracket are they.
@exile yeah true fair enough haha !
I’m fairly well on the ball in realtime during games in Croker,
These are my main issues from the final, I was in Cusack near the Davin lower tier,
Gannon took out Kerry keeper with an elbow to the body.
Another strange incident I thought at the time, a Kerry player was on the ground having lost the ball on Hogan stand side at around the 50 yard line from his own goals, I think it was McCarthy that appeared to step over his upper body just after he passed the ball to another Dublin player, Gough allowed played continue with the Kerry player on the ground.
Something I have noticed far too often this year in football and Hurling, Referees don’t stop the play when a player is genuinely down on the ground injured, the refs did stop the game always a few years ago.
They need to look at Soccer and Rugby to see how this should work.
But the ‘line’ that’s crossed or not is always different for Dublin over the past decade. They get away with murder. Mccarthy, John Small, Darragh McCauley, Cooper, Philly etc. They continued to do it because they know they wouldn’t be punished. The Refs undoubtedly feel the pressure from the Dubs juggernaut and don’t want to be viewed as the one to spoil the party. I don’t think it’s a conscious or intentional thing from Refs but they’re only human.
I even thought that Gough blowing up on the nick of time was curious. Because this never happens. So it’s an outlier. He probably rightly should have allowed another 30secs.
Dublin will punish you if you make a mistake. Although the 2023 team was different to the teams of the last decade that ruthlessness is not. I’m talking about the mistake that led to the Dublin goal. You had a strong idea what was going to happen after Dublin intercepted that ball.
On Mayo aggression and altar boys, I think toughness and intensity is in the Mayo DNA. It mightn’t be there now or yet but it will come. I don’t think it is gone. This is what Mayo do. Kevin McLoughlin might look like an altar boy, for example, but he wasn’t one over the last ten years.The lads now can be the same.
The manager sets the tone for intensity and aggression and James Horan set the tone for Mayo.
We haven’t seen it yet under McStay unfortunately.
Rochy’s 2016/17 team was Horan’s team really. It was Boyler or Higgins who said that they’d have gone through a wall for Horan.
As a neutral I thought Gough did a great job. Yes people can say that McCarthy played on the edge but when you factor the conditions into it, it was always going to be scrappy. It’s an AI final. You could see the dubs really wanted it. Fitzsimmons nearly killed Costello in the warm up.
Gough let the game flow, to many times refs keep blowing for fuck all and it kills the momentum of the game. He made a brilliant call on the Clifford Fitzsimmons pull, most refs with big egos would have stuck to their guns and gave Clifford the free.
A lot of Kerry people disappointed with the ref but I think that’s just a natural emotional reaction. It’s worth remembering there was a lot of question marks over the Kerry goal, was it 2 hops or not. Gough gave it, others may not have.
I touch of an Ulster Final about it; tough, physical, relatively low scoring. Not a classic but exciting. In my opinion Stephen Cluxton is the real hero. Apart from his two points, landing all his kick outs and control of the game was the difference between the teams. If he is not there Dublin don’t win. A lot of talk about David Clifford but Sunday demonstrated that having a Stephen Cluxton is equally if not more important than a star forward.
Green & Red, Gough did not have a good game, most people agree with that, the poleaxing of Ryan by the Lee Gannon, Gough was facing the high ball being kicked in, how could he not miss that? Graham Sullivan taken out on the ground by McCarthy, yet still allowed play to continue. Playing on the edge = should, woulda, could being sent off, blackcarded. Playing on the edge = does not deserve Player of the Year on the Sunday Game, sends out the wrong message to young people.
As for Geaney’s goal, it was not two hops at all, the ball on the ground rising up off the ground as Geaney was losing balance.
Gough’s missed decisions still did not influence the outcome though, he did in fairness let the game flow in the conditions.
Kerry lost, because we lacked composure in overtime, we lacked physicality when it really mattered and we lacked taking our chances in being economical when it really mattered, we lacked reinvention, reconfiguration when it really mattered. Dublin wanted it more. All on those 5 things. I’ve no problem calling out a spade is a spade, I’ve recovered, as our records are still better than Dublin’s, I have all the data if anyone wants them, as much as 50% better in some categories, so I’m not too down, as it’s those records that keep me going. This disappointment will pass, like everything does, 12 months is a very short time. We’ll rise again, we’re resilient, thanks to our tradition, as our 20 appearance in 23 championship semi finals can confirm.
I didn’t think we’d be in an All-Ireland Final this year actually, but we were still there to the last day, the last minute in trying to defend the cup. We did our best, fell short to the best team in the end. Congratulations Dublin.
Micko,I feel sorry for the Kerry supporters it is natural after a defeat to feel down,but I disagree with you about the ref I felt that he was very fair and listened to his umpires correctly,as for the Gannon tackle ,it was not in the same ball park as last year after OSheas penalty,which was a clear sending off offence,but you will now understand how we feel after over seventy years waiting
I actually thought the ref had a good game to fair on both sides but natural instincts to blame ref after a loss to..
Thought the booing gough after game was really bad form tbh …
Micko Tough luck on losing Sunday .Always hard to take close defeats and you look back at key decisions which went against you. We have a lifetime of those experiences in Mayo. However I thought Gough did quite well. Yes McCarthy should have been booked in first half. On the Gannon incident on Ryan it was not conclusive in my opinion that he deliberately “did” Ryan, similar to what Ryan did to the Derry player before he scored the point in semi. Impossible to say either was deliberate. Both players would suggest that they had eyes only on the ball.
Micko – we can all highlight the individual moments but as a neutral, who has absolutely no lover whatsoever for Dublin, i didn’t feel Gough had a bias towards them. Just my opinion.
Like if we want to reference the hard tackles, if you cast your mind back 12 months ago, Kerry got one of the most controversial frees in a final ever by Sean Hurson when Cillian Splainne was tackling the Galway wing back, for his hand being trapped. That free was converted by Clifford to give Kerry the lead down the home stretch. I can’t remember many Kerry people saying that was the wrong call, it was deemed very harsh at the time.
On top of that if we go back to the 2019 final, Clifford with the softest penalty ever seen given. Gough gave that and sent Johnny Cooper off.
As I said, it’s just my opinion but it looked like Dublin were prepared to fight far harder, and mostly within the rules of the game.
What was your views on the Kerry supporters boing Gough at the end? I’ve never heard such loud jeers at a ref in all my life. Thought it was pityfull.
And I might add Micko – what was your views on the Ryan tackle on McGuigen in the semi final when he floored him. Derry fans didn’t seem to happy with that. Not even a free given. Would you have the same energy and suggest that if Gannon went off then Ryan should probably be sent off too? In the semi final I mean
so jack oconnor knows how to lose final
Well, I was there right behind the goal, I seen as Gannon was rushing in, he had intent, and took Ryan out, pure and simple, as for comparing and contrasting with Ryan’s horrible arse bump against Derry, it’s not in the same realm of clothes line intent. But yes, I still think Ryan should have been sent off v Derry in the semi final, or at best, black carded. Any other transgressions we committed, should have been enacted upon too. So I am consistent, they commit sin, we commit sin, we all should face the consequences of our actions. But comparing Gough with the referee of the semi final is like comparing apples and oranges, the final obviously is more of an importance, Gough has past form of looking the other way, like in 2016, another of our players got punched, onto the ground. Gough admitted later that he should have taken action and got his decision wrong.
The umpires did, nor add to absolutely nothing in the game last Sunday with that Fitzsimons / Clifford incident. In fact, 90% of the time, they add to zero in matches, linesmen are only marginally better, but still very poor for not calling to attention to referees.
Anyone that jeers a ref, is not a GAA fan, they should be called out and punished, he was also booed at the Dublin Victory dinner i may add, by them. Its wrong, pure and simple. Refereeing is the toughest job out there in GAA, especially at Bord na nÓg level, as I can testify to myself.
Look! Any referree that has a conflict of interest, working in a place of a team in a final, should not be officiating, pure and simple, as loyalties are going to be built up in that place of work, irrespective of whether Gough had a good game or not. Rule must be, any officiator must be from a neutral province with no ties to either county, the stakes are too high, sure I know this myself from marking exams. I’m a reasonable and measured man myself.
Matters little now, game over, ball burst, we’ll channel this hurt carefully like we did after 2021 v Covid knock out by siphoning it off through a sieve, bottling it, to use for next year. It’s sport, we have to evolve, we don’t, then we don’t learn.
Like I keep on reiterating, I’d love to see Mayo win an All-Ireland.
In the minds and tweeted opinions of several ex Dublin/Kerry illuminati, the fight for Sam in 2023 is over, but the fight for the hearts and minds of the players in the GPA for their vote in Player of the Year 2023 award is still very much on. In most cases this is a Party Political Broadcast on behalf of the self interested party. Ill try and be objective as I can as no Mayo or even Connacht Player is in contention for an All Star never mind a Player of the Year award. The Player of the Year up to the Final was David Clifford, The Final, Stephen Cluxton, 23 out of 23 restarts in seconds, sometimes under a full court press with Shane Ryan taking up position out the field, 2 points from 2 attempts on the 45. Forget about James McCarthy a player who should have sent off and gave the ball away several times. Its between Cluxton and Clifford in my opinion.
@micko do you think gough should have awarded the goal we got against against dubs ? Or was gough right in that? Just curious ha kerry be back again at the top next year no doubt .
Ah I do like your post though micko .. ah thanks my dub mates are driving me mad now saying we will never win all Ireland …cause the Jack’s are back haha
Such bad form anyone booing in ref. It’s really gotten bad this year I feel the treatment of refs .. the booing after final & with paudie Clifford calling out the ref after he got sent off in the club game and other stuff I feel bad for them soon no one will want to ref especially in gaa and who can blame them ?..
Still think good few of them will go like in one of their speeches one of them said it was more about setting a standard for the younger players coming in then us getting another medal what younger players? They didn’t blood many younger players this year…!
Lee gannon did not have his eyes on the ball in that incident.he is clearly looking at Ryan.absolutely no interest in where the ball was.This idea that you can’t blame the ref is all well and good but if a ref decides he has to let things go then he has to do it for the whole game not picking and choosing .even the last free for Dublin in the context of what he was letting go is very harmless
Thanks Clare. Yes, Mayo should have had that goal awarded v Dublin, you see, its the little things that big decisions swing on, hinge on, the inches in life, the balancers, that Jack O’ Connor has alluded to in his book to Keys to the Kingdom. Gough’s decisions did not influence the outcome. Look, we lost to the better team in the very end, it was close, that’s sport. We were there to the last game of the season, to the last minute and over it, this fact seems to have been overlooked by so many. Mayo have been blackguarded in the past too by bad referring decisions.
Thank you LeanTimes too, it has got to be between Cliffird v Cluxton. But considering Clifford lost his Nana and Mum in the space of 3 weeks, played in a Munster Final the very day after his Mum passed away, that to me, says it all, he was captain, more pressure on him, he’d surely have to get the nod. He has dragged through this year, all on his own, a poor year of performances by Kerry standards. Without Cliffird, we would not have been in a final, pure and simple, that’s why he has to get the nod, less pressure on Cluxton v opposing teams and mitigating external factors, fantastic and all he was last Sunday.
Paul Geaney got away with a hop an a half Micko…. referees interpretation then. The assist alone deserved a goal anyway .
Paul Geaney got away with no two hops, even a hop and half is moote, look at the video again, momentum of the ball made it look like that. Two hops of a ball with conscious / intent would have been a transgression.
Sure where do we stop….. we could go back and back, years to matches. Time to move on. I’ve taken my defeat from Sunday, in an otherwise low quality, high on tension final.
Anyway, I’m healing, I’ve folded my tent, time to move onto 2024.
I hope it’ll be better for Mayo too.
Micko, slow pints in Mellets. The only cure for now 🙂
Dead right Micko… we’ve already moved a month down the road with our tent.
Speaking to a well respected former player yesterday and I tend to agree… His analysis its a circus on the field and its Duffy’s Circus off the field.
We are a mile off the best teams and we are more than likely regressing into the likes of cork, meath and down.
There has been completed neglect in underage for the past 10 years plus.
The county board are not fit for purpose and there have no vision
until we are all honest we are going nowwhere
@Micko, it is what it is, the Dubs are the favoured team by the Gaa for 10 years now but what they have achieved is remarkable and sometimes I cannot really believe they have won 6 in a row.
Kerry have tasted victory on many occasions, I’m coming to Croker for many years and I wasn’t convinced with Kerry v Derry, I went for the Dubs to win by 4 points and stated this on the blog.
The Dubs are the current fashion, great for Gas in the City, some of the bigger clubs may have A, B, C and D teams at minor level, and 3 Girls teams at U 16, great for winning so many All Irelands but are probably peoples favourites also, we cannot even win one and looking over the fence at those boys breaking records.
How are the likes of Mayo to get a fair crack at a title, by fair I mean big Refereeing decisions, ticket allocation etc.
The only hope I have is that the Rural Counties get more Youngsters playing Gaa Sports, new Irish also should be really encouraged more to play the game.
I found the big driving factor is actually Mentor Coaching, always looking for something new to add but as I tell people it’s a big bonus when the Mentor has actually played the game ( not some of the people that have just gotten into Gaa because it’s fashionable and those never togged out in their lives)
@Michael ah now it’s not that bad we are def better then meath and down come on . Cork are actually coming up more then they were so honestly I don’t think we are in an awful place . We just need to sort our defence but I Dont think things are that bad tbh.
Were not miles off either sure we beat kerry twice this year beat Galway twice also..Each to their own though !
Brilliant site this with very knowledgeable and mature football folk in Mayo. Well done! Willie Joe on all Mayo posters. Thank you.
Unlike Moderator’s Kerry Forum which is all about cancel culture, cancel posts, if they don’t agree nor like you. There’s brilliant posters on that site too, except for the moderator, a negatron.
Thanks JP, Mellets for slow points to cure me!!???. I’m a Pioneer man, alcohol is depressant, they don’t compute, eventhough I love going out and to bars. I’ve never drank in that establishment.
I’ll get by with my tayto’s, glass bottle of Coca-Cola and a dairymilk.
Let’s all just hope we have all folded our tent now, move on through the journey of finding our pitch next year and staying there. Here’s to Ciarraí Abú agus Maigh Eo Abú.
There’ll be no navy / sky blue on our site though next year, nor for the next few years, that I am certain of.
Micko, Mellets is a really good football chat pub on quiet days.
@Micko,
Had David Clifford been on form, no question about it Kerry would have won on Sunday, for all the plaudits that the Dubs hare received.
I could see as the 1at wore on that Jack O Connor needed him further out the pitch kinda on the wing, but was he too far out in a few cases trying for some of those shots, he had or wanted to do all the work himself.
The big decisions always goes to the Dubs in the final.
I mentioned two black or Red card offences that were let go by Gough, here is another.
What David Clifford was bearing down on goal I could see his jersey being held, as far as I remember there was no Dublin player between him and Cluxton, should this have been a penalty, Kerry were awarded a penalty v Cork when the Kerry player was running from more of an angle on goal, outside the box if I remember correctly.
It is what it is I suppose.
@Micko, Now that your folding your tent, it reminded me of another famous tent and not the one at Duffy’s Circus. Once upon a time in the Old West in the not quite forgotten day’s of yore, there was a Tent at the Galway Races. Many never wanted to see it ever fold. Great Place for Consolation I’m told, but not for Pioneers nor your ordinary Pint drinker either ..Dom Perignon or nothing.
Absolutely no doubt about it, the Dubs get most of the calls in the finals. Consistently. Petrified referees.
Only hope the rest of the country have is for the likes of Derry, Galway, Tyrone, Mayo, even Meath (in time) to improve a bit more and maybe pip Dublin in a quarter or semi. That’s our only hope.
Kerry will be fine. They’ll never be too far off the Dubs.
Liberal, I liked your post higher up that said that it’s the manager who sets the tone for physicality and intensity and in Mayo that was Horan. You said the 2016 and 2017 teams were started by him.
That’s really really interesting.
I remember Gamechanger10 saying here in 2017 or 2018 that the Mayo backs were formidable, that they’d strip the ball out of your hand like stripping the bark off a tree. I loved that.
I also think Donie Buckley had his own part to play in upping our physicality. I really feel that Chris Barrett’s incredible display in the 2017 All-Ireland drew on some of Donie’s principles and it was a performance for the ages by Chris.
We have a young team and we have a weird era of blanket defences, possession football, speed and ‘not taking the ball into the tackle’ but I’d love to see our physicality and intensity back. It was part of what made us great (not to want to sound like the Donald).
Free podcast with an interview with Stephen Rochford for those interested, it’s available here:
https://open.spotify.com/episode/7eAbh0qEIvVjTzaiu7ydJw?si=R2fBXL_vSaOGTQamymX-pA
Get the impression the +1 role is here to stay….
They not going back training in November this year, leaving it till December.
New pod up on Patreon, this one featuring Colm Boyle and Colm Keys chatting with Mike about the All-Ireland final, Liam McHale’s departure and other stuff.
Is it usual for members of backroom teams to give interviews of this type.i don’t recall it happening anywhere else
1985,yep
1985 – I completely agree. I don’t see the need at all for any manager or backroom staff anywhere to come out giving interviews or podcasts. His job is to manage the team, not speak to the fans. But then again if we looked at the management team, somewhere in there there is a media leasion. Which is a joke in itself. Personally I think it’s an ego thing, to jump onto podcasts and let everyone know what you think. No point trying to explain yourself after the event.
I wonder could we get a few pods off Jack O’Connor, Dessie Farrell and a few more. Only in mayo.
No Referee that works or lives in Dublin should be asked or ordered to Referee an All Ireland final where Dublin are playing, for fear of a backlash if he played by the Rules as close as possible, this has happened in many finals over the past 10 years.
All we want is fair play.
Kerry like Mayo have a weak midfielder, maybe a bit too nice of a fella, he had a very poor game yesterday, didn’t track back enough and let his opposite number contest Cluxton kick outs with no pressure from any Kerry player.
This crack of goalkeeper coming out the pitch is pure Horseshit, and caught Kerry out yesterday, Mayo got caught also v the Dubs in the quarter final with this carry on.
Very clever of Dublin management to bring Cluxton out from goal to take 45 and long range free kick, I think it was the first time he has done this all year.
Well mcstay giving interviews as the manager is one thing but a member of the backroom team seems a bit unusual.who is second in command with Dublin and Kerry
Only getting to the post-match stuff now. Great to be at the final, nothing beats being there. Small margins but Dublin closed it out very well. Those two points in added time in a very tight game, in bad conditions, were huge. Dublin are masters at that type of game management.
They are also masters at punishing mistakes – the goal for example.
Still, I don’t think they are unbeatable. Kerry stripped them of the ball, time after time in their runs forward, but didn’t maximise the returns from this play. We used to be so good at that. We can get back to it.
Kerry were left bringing on players like Burns and Adrian Spillane who are a long way off the quality of the Dublin subs. Both those players were involved in a number of crucial late turnovers favouring Dublin despite being freshly introduced to the game when they should have been full of energy.
Geaney Murphy and O’Brien are all 33 or more next year and will need to be replaced soon.
We need to just get back to the physical intensity of the Horan era because it’s definitely slipped in the last year or two. Nothing to do with ability and everything to do with attitude.
I have no problem with Stephen Rochford giving an interview. He doesn’t tend to give too many. And I find him interesting to listen to.
Nothing startling or revolutionary in his or McStays interviews. Which isn’t surprising I suppose.
Confirmed what I mentioned yesterday about the training having started well before the mindspace game.amd seems the role Loftus was in is going to be used again if taking him up right.
Both interviews probably vetted and set questions, pictures of McStay with notebook doing his would allude to this.
But no issues with them doing them.
I don’t have a problem with rochford doing an interview either.just wondered does it happen in other counties that backroom team members give interviews.I am sure I read somewhere that rochford wasn’t entirely comfortable dealing with the media when he was the manager
I believe a criticism of James Horan was he did not communicate enough with supporters,now we apparently don’t want any communication from management
Again corrick bridge that’s not what i said .my question is does the coach or assistant manager from other counties give interviews.I don’t think I have heard paddy tally giving any interviews .I would imagine that whatever mcstay would say would be more or less the same as rochford.I also would have found rochford interesting to listen to in the past and I will listen to this podcast later
Rochford said any day Loftus played we were undefeated bar the Roscommon game. He also said we knew about the scoring difference but couldn’t get a cohesive message to O’Shea for the free against Cork.
@corrick the question was do back room team management’s often give interviews not that we don’t want communication from management obviously..
I don’t think I’ve heard other county’s back room teams management give interviews tbh either.
Well Loftus was playing against cork .must listen to it later
@Lucero then why was loftus benched for the Dubs game? If we were undefeated anytime he played….not getting at loftus here just can’t understand why the guy was benched he never asked to be number 6. Sorry for double posts.
The 2 Hurley twins are outrageous talents
Put on a clinic tonight against moy davitts
Claremorris should win it outright I’d imagine. Was at Mitchell’s v Parke . Mitchell’s huffed and puffed a bit before getting their act together later on.
Lucero.
They shouldn’t have to even need get that message through. Every panel member, should have known scoring difference was important and us gombeens knew what Aidan didn’t. Very unprofessional.
Maybe look away from Conor Loftus for a moment and look instead at who came in instead of him.
As Rochford said there’s a huge amount of little details and even gut feelings involved in team selection, and it’s easy to forget that for Conor to lose his place in the team, there had to be someone else, bursting their gut in training trying to take that jersey from Conor.
Yeah. But who was he. Frost. I didn’t notice him anyway.
I thought Stephen was a bit vaguer on the score difference issue.
He said there was a lot of things going on the moment. Injuries, trying to get a goal. Interview I believe is the one who mentioned crowd noise. To which Stephen added the lack of maor foirnes.
Was very little in the interview imo. I thought there was a little bit more detail around the amount of work involved in management, then came up in Kevin’s interview, which was definitely more focused directly on the season just gone.
I’d back Mitchels for the Minor, Hurleys are lovely footballers but size could come against them longer term.
Beirne for Claremorris could be contender for future.
If Rochford or McStay couldn’t get a cohesive message into O Shea about the last free v Cork – there attempts to get the message in left a lot to be desired. Both stood on our own 45 meter line and didn’t move or name any hand signal as far as I could see. Once the free was awarded Rochford should have sprinted up the sideline shouting in the message to the freetaker.
@south mayo exile agree tbh I hate slating management and I’ve back mcstay and Co fron start but the thought of Rochford saying we have gone undefeated when loftus was on is a bit baffling tbh ….. as @1985 said did loftus not start v cork ? And if we were undefeated with him why bench him v dubs?
As I said I’m not witch hunting loftus at all here he’s a great player but come on it seems to be going around in circles now what Rochford said ? Maybe I’m wrong but it doesn’t look good if you ask me.
@Nephin, how could every panel member possibly know the score minutes into injury time in Mayos own game v Cork, because Louth v Kerry was taking place at the same time?. They would have to be paying more attention to Kerry v Louth than Mayo v Cork> The only difference it made was that Cork finished second and we finished third. As Cork played Roscommon and we couldnt play Roscommon again in the championship. We played Galway, who we beat but then drew Dublin for the Quarter Final. When we didnt win the group we were likely to draw provincial champions or Armagh but not Kerry, Possibly we might have beaten Derry or Armagh who knows immaterial now,
In both interviews they seemed excellent at what we do. Making excuses.
Don’t think excuses will be accepted in Kerry this week.
@nephin how is it making exsuces? Rochford said eveyy time we were undefeated loftus played pretty sure he started v cork ? If so undefeated why they bench him ? Why play o hora when not fit?
Im glad mcstay came out gage a good interview but I’m a bit confused my Rochford . Don’t think that’s making exsuces just pointing out facts
Dont get me wrong I think we will bounce back next year and only mcstay& cos first year but you have to question what Rochford said in fairness . I still think mcstay will come good next year.
@nephin pretty sure I hear kerry exsuces already ha ref had a bad game Clifford was off ..
Smug Kerry fans getting a taste of what it’s like after losing an all Ireland by a whisker has been unexpectedly entertaining over the last couple of days. Paul Flynn’s provocative tweet talking down Clifford was met by a predictable outbreak of rage by the Kerry social media brigade.
The fact is you just can’t win those kind of arguments with Dublin folk after a game like Sunday’s and Kerry fans just need to grit their teeth, bear it and say nothing. The winners write the script in GAA and the losers are trash. No one knows that better than us unfortunately
Yes Tommyjoe, far far worse has be said about Mayo and Mayo players after All Ireland losses. Paul Flynn’s comments are very harmless really. Nothing can be done but suck it up. All sport is the same. Flynn got the reaction he was looking for.
Moy Davitts beat Castlebar and then Claremorris beat Moy Davitts comprehensively. So I’ll be really suprised if Claremorris don’t win the minor.
Both are Crossmolina men , Rochy is going to defend Loftus, but yes Loftus played and contributed to both penalties against Roscommon and Cork.
Moy davitts conceded the game against castlebar.
@nephin apologies I mis read your comment thought you were saying supporters making exsuxes not management ha.
@Tommyjoe yeah they know the feeling now can’t really look down their nose at our all Ireland loss by a point or so . Paul flynn just looking for a reaction and he got it!
The Kerry lads will be OK. They will probably win 2 or 3 of the next 5 all Irelands and will have several more won before we taste victory.
Dublin were a driven team in this years final – Kerry will have that motivation next year.
@Mayoforsam23 Yes you are correct. Actually it was Westport they beat. I still think Claremorris will win the final.
Kerry might win 1 or 2 more all Irelands if Clifford is on top form .
They will be motivated next year but won’t win it as we will :p haha
Or Derry. Derry should have been in the final.
Saw one comment from a kerry supporter saying Clifford will show Paul flynn like he showed o hora in league 22 they have short memories pretty sure we showed them in this years league and in killarney haha pity we couldn’t keep up the stamina &form .. !!
Interesting interview from rochford.He clearly states they didn’t target winning the league this year and points to the cork game as where it all went wrong although he doesn’t remember who our centre back/plus one was in that game.Anyway time to move on hopefully we will see some form of improvement next year
@jp Claremorris produce lovely underage footballers but have a soft belly at senior level.
I don’t think they have been in a senior final since 1978, that year they were the team of the stars but were defeated by a technically inferior team from Castlebar that were motivated and fitter then them.
1985,you might not remember when M Moran was in charge Mayo,by all accounts a very good manager he left most interviews to his side kick,any way an interview will neither win or lose us a game,it is finding that one or two players who can improve us I am very happy that we have the management team in place to do so
Don’t forget the need for a plan and systems for the players Corick, that was one the biggest issues this year.
Gorey has done a massive job on that front with Monaghan with far less resources and far smaller pick. The Monaghan lads really bought in to his system as well, which makes a big difference.
Yea his name was John Morrison RIP .actually met him outside croker after draw with Laois in 2006 .very positive man .but irrelevant to what I was saying about context of interview
That is only your opinion,thankfully
Well, I’m never smug, we lose, we lose. If you give it, you got to take it. We like every county, have a few down here that do let the county down, but on a whole fir the most part, we are good, and you go back the decades, our tradition proves that. You win, you win, we never overdo it, we lose, we lose, fold up the tent and move on, dust yourselves down. We’re pretty damn good at that, although, not as good as we used to. Donaghy was a player that was always a student in this school of thought. Watching our angst and depression was unexpectedly entertaining over the last few days!! Jealous hatreds get those kind of posters nowhere really. Life’s too short, love one another.
As for Flynn, brilliant player, loved his attitude on the pitch, but as a gobstopper, he needs to eat bigger size chewing gum. God Bless him, he doesn’t seem to be the strongest cognitively, punditry, his low grade IQ gaffs are a symptomatic malaise that’s gripping his current game.
He would have never been able for Clifford himself. Did he not realise what Clifford went through himself this year? In the Dublin media bubble, I truly doubt that he thinks there’s a more real Ireland outside the M50.
If I were David, pin up Paul’s tweet as motivation for next year, use it as Flynnstone if we do even meet again. I’d said Paul Flynn probably will do more now for David’s future motivation, than David will do himself. Thanks Flynn. Maybe he’s just getting unsettled of Dublin’s impending demise, and it is coming, at least for a while. All empires fall at some stage. Dublin are now in retrograde from 2024. Keep an eye on that blue moon. Last Sunday was the last sting from a dying wasp.
Ciarraí agus Maigh Eo Abú
Right so what John Morrison was talking about in an interview 17 years ago is relevant to what Stephen rochford is saying now hmmm fascinating
Clifford clearly wasn’t “smoked” but that tweet was quite clearly sent live from the high stool so I wouldn’t sweat it too much (Clifford certainly won’t!!).
He actually did have a quiet game against Tyrone, but for what its worth I’d still give him POTY, McCarthy is my favourite player of all time from Dublin but had a poor enough final, and even in the first half against Mayo he was off the boil – don’t agree with it being a lifetime achievement gong to be honest
@micko you seem like a decent kerry person in fairness I’m not saying all kerry are smug course not. But I’ve been to plenty kerry/ mayo matches in croker and the abuse we got from some kerry fans at each of those games was unreal more saying we were loosers etc. Now we’ve bad fans within our own county to of course!
Paul flynn I agree was a pretty immature but he’s said immature things about mayo to Clifford had a terrible personal year but flynn was only saying his view on gaa and that was it . But it was a petty remark by flynn no doubt!
angst and depression comment was not jealous/hatred more so the belittling attitude alot kerry gaa fans give mayo even when we beat ye twice this year still not much respect towards us guess until we win Sam we won’t get it …
Ye will be back up at the top again next year no doubt though
Thank you Clare. Much appreciated. In fairness to you and all the Mayo posters, you are terrific people, and you have to me on this forum as an outsider. Sure, i know this myself having worked up there for 20 years!! Id say itll be another 13 more!! My relation, Paul Galvin has mentioned in his book, the sincere, nice natured people of Mayo, I, like Paul, stand by that.
On behalf of those not nice people that were supporting Kerry those times that you had a bad experience, my apologies. They do not represent the county. We definitely do not want to go down the road of soccer, i love and i play soccer myself, of hatred which will lead to segregation. That’s the one thing that we do not want in the GAA. Consiloidate and protect the great things that we have, eventhough it is fast disappearing, lact of respect for Season Ticket supporters in giving them poor tickets for All-Ireland Finals, GAAGo, disrespect to Jubilee All-Ireland winning sides if the past, unfair fixture separations etc, The Split Season, which is wrong on every level. It’s a long winter that starts in July. I dearly miss Mayo being in All-Ireland Finals, working in my school, the great atmosphere for the build up amongst the kids and the boost around Mayo. Great buzz, miss those times. It made the winter shorter. We could go on and on, that’s just the Suits up in Croke Park making these dreadful decisions. The main, wider GAA family, Mayo, Kerry and beyond are brilliant.
Look, I’ll be straight up, I never want to see Kerry, Dublin or any other county dominate by winning copious titles. It’s not good for the game, turns neutrals off, got to think outside the box. Look at the bigger picture. I think from next year on, or most certainly from 2025 onwards, when Limerick hurling domination will end, I reckon the football competitions, and the hurling too, will be wide open. This is only good for the game.
I apologise for taking up text time here. Sorry, that my post is a bit philosophical. Important to state this.
Anyway hope all is well up in the Yew Tree County. Maigh Eo Abú.
The players will pick the POTY ,so I think it will be Clifford.
@micko ah guess there’s a few bad eggs in every county!
As I said I like your posts so keep on posting : )
Kerry people are lovely people to used to spend a lot of summers down there!
Ah hopefully mayo get back to finals soon sure as the Dubs said it was hard 2 years for them not being in finals ha that remark though haha..I don’t have sympathy for ‘their 2 tough years ‘ haha
I totally agree think it’s so much better for the game when wide open think next year will be ide open with dubs/kerry/ Derry at the top I just hope mayo have a better year haha!
Micko,very well posted,I have found Kerry supporters very sound,in fact after ninety seven most of them were embarrassed because of the poor game,in fact most supporters are sound the Dublin supporters would wipe the floor with you,but are always sound ,we have a few ourselves who would embarrass any one,take care until we meet next year
Micko, can you pass on those Kerry kicking skills to pupils 🙂 We’d greatly appreciate.
1985, you asked the question I answered your question,but now it doesn’t matter,I will now ask a question ,how has public opinion got no criticism because after the Galway game some posters claimed that public opinion picked the team against Galway as that is why we won,I have heard no one claiming that public opinion picked the team against Dublin,perhaps a little more time to reflect and enjoy our team would be in order
@corick I’m sure we all want to enjoy our team but that’s pretty hard to when we had a really dissapointing end to season I don’t know how anyone could say that we didn’t. Go out in a dissapointing way .
Corrick I asked did other county teams backroom members give interviews not previous mayo management teams.Rochford said in his interview that they didn’t target winning the league and also said that only game we lost while Loftus was playing was against Roscommon??.Now I will repeat I have absolutely nothing against any of our management set up and I am disappointed to see McHale depart but our championship season was disastrous where we lost 3 out of 6 championship games and suffered our worst championship defeat since 2006 when of course Micky Moran and John Morrison were in charge.I genuinely hope mcstay and rochford can turn it around but if they don’t look back on this year they are not going to be able to make the improvements necessary and another championship season like the one we just had will put them under enormous pressure
@1985 totally agree with you !
You don’t like the answer,so you come up with something else,last time I checked Mayo is a county
Your original question was is usual for members of back room teams to give interviews,I pointed it was not unusual for members of back room teams to give interviews,you now only want to know about other counties,should we ask public opinion for an interview?
Oh dear god corrick you truly are great craic.obviously I wouldn’t refer to my own county as other counties and where did you hear this fact that public opinion picked the team against Galway
Seems to be a lot of young teenage forwards coming though in Mayo with potential. It’s good to see but given that the youngest player on the field on Sunday for Kerry was 24 – Diarmuid O’Connor and 23 for Dublin – Lee Gannon, we won’t see the impact of those guys really until 2030 or so.
@1985 –
Here is Cian O`Neill a coach for Galway doing an interview on off the ball 4 days ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bW2oMC7jFmE
Fair enough that answers my question.couldn’t recall any obvious one
I would also be very surprised if Kieran Donaghy of Armagh or Kevin Walsh of Cork are not on off the ball in the next few weeks on their regular slot.
In fact Kieran was doing interviews during the season
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4E6wd6GctU
They can do the late late and any other interviews they like so long as they put in place some things they were missing this year e.g.
– Kick out strategy
– Defensive structure
– Offensive plan for blankets/congested defense
🙂
Ah feck it lads,
It’s the same sceal every year, particularly when Mayo lose a final,
If we only had one more scoring forward.
Or
If we had a good ball winning full forward.
Or
If we had a midfielder that could pluck the ball from the kickouts
Or
If we had one more good defender.
Or
A goalie that comes out and takes man and ball.
The trouble is, the Dubs play to a strict plan and just have the know-how to plan for any opposition.
Going on Mayo’s past record, two continuous years in the final is followed by 3 or more years years in the wilderness.
When we look at the Statistics from 2003 until 2023, it has been all Dublin 9, Kerry 6, Tyrone 4, Cork 1 and Donegal just the 1.
It’s between the two big guns for the next 2 years.
This is the Professional era we are in since 2013.
It’s a free Country Folk’s, people are entitled to give or like Stephen Cluxton decline to give interview’s. Politicians definitely should answer questions in Dail Eireann when asked.. Apart from that, I don’t really care if a Trappists Monk decided to host the Late Late Show (could only be an improvement on what we despite his lack of practice speaking) or if Dublin’s Jim Gavin decided take over from Marty Morrissey as Chief Roving Reporter on all matter’s GAA for RTE..Oh No .On second thoughts the Trappists Monk probably has more to say .
I actually read on the blog after the Galway game,that
Public opinion was responsible for our team against Galway
Just to clarify I originally asked was it usual for backroom team members to give interviews and in my next post I immediately said other counties and said I had absolutely no issue with rochford doing an interview and I then moved on to the content of the interview which I found interesting but it’s strange how your comment can become misrepresented
any word on why McHale left management set up, would he be going to Cavan or donegal, he didnt appear to have any say or influence in Mayo scene just like McDonald last year.
Not at all clear 1985,but to be fair to you ,you asked who was second in command in Dublin,and Kerry,in Dublin it is Brian ORegan,in Kerry it appears to be Michael Qurike and Paddy Tally for sure M Quirks has often been talking to the Irish Examiner,perhaps you need to broaden your reading material,please can we allow the management team to do what they are experts in,managing teams,I have seen some posters calling for an all Ireland winner to be appointed to manage Mayo,we did have Jackoand Brian McDonald with no success,I presume that after Sunday that Jack OConner is no longer suitable,we have four people in the back room team who have either played or managed all Ireland winning teams,I am confident that next year we will be showering them with praise,now enjoy the club football
@corock course we can allow management to do what they were hired to do but we are also entitled to question them when things go wrong sure if we said they did excellent this year it would be a complete lie in all fairness instead of showering them with praise when it was our worst defeat and exit in a quarter final since 2006 i think someone said …!!
If they are expert how come we fizzled away this year?
I’m sure they will improve but come on your entitled to say if management was poor or not
Well corrick bridge if you actually read back my posts then I think you will find they were very clear.maybe you didn’t notice that I mentioned paddy tally as i am aware who is in other backroom teams but they don’t appear to be as high profile as our lot.You are obviously a very passionate mayo supporter and fair play to you for your optimism.As a matter of interest what did you think of Rochfords interview and his take on the national league and the Conor Loftus experiment
@Corick Bridge, can I ask how or why will we be showering the management with praise next year?
For getting to or winning a League final or for getting to an All Ireland semi final or final and losing again?
What should be the result we should expect to get next year?
Kerry and the Dubs are going nowhere any time soon.
I am confident the we will be all Ireland champions next year
1985,my opinion does not matter,I am more than confident that Stephen Rochford has actually played and managed all Ireland winning teams,more than good enough for me
Jesus Corick, I don’t so, some day in the future it will be won but I don’t see it in the next 5 -10 years.
We may be going into Croker on Wheelchairs for the win or looking down from above.
Last year’s Kerry team was one of the worst teams ever to win an all Ireland.
Galway were inexperienced and allowed Clifford play puck as was Walsh allowed run riot.
Kerry less Moran are a worse team this year.
What they have going for them is tradition,great self belief and fearless on the pitch.
They don’t have enough “hard” men.
Do you think the Kerry of old would have left Cluxton stroll up the field without being challenged?
So what if you get a yellow card, and reading the Ref no card would have been issued.
Mayo are not as far away as some think, it is wide open.
I agree Jr.. I don’t think we are as far away as people think. Our timing to peak performance was all wrong and we ran out of gas by the time we played Cork. The break we had after we lost to Roscommon was the only thing that kept us on the road as long as we did. Dublin got there timing spot on which they can easily do as they have no competition in the province. New defensive approach, timing and a bit of luck with competition schedules could bring us a long way next year!
Hate the blanket,I am seventy three,I don’t mind waiting another year,I know for sure that I have had about sixty years of enjoyment following Mayo
1985, I was surprised by confusion around who played in what games.
But happy he seemed emphasise league is what it is, a means to an end with Championship only show in town.
He highlighted fact they were back in November last year as well, so given that by time we knocked out they’d nearly 8 months as unit it’s disappointing kick out, defensive and attacking systems were not more evident. Or a plan B in place for the more predictable scenarios we encountered.
But sin é.
Hate the blanket,I am seventy three,I don’t mind waiting another year,I know for sure that I have had about sixty years of enjoyment following Mayo,sorry Bate the blanket ,I did write Bate predictive text changed my original post
Agree JR, if we were better structured this year we would likely have been in shake up, another opportunity lost unfortunately.
Games getting more and more professional, resources a huge part of it, most counties could only dream of what we have on that front. Theres no car pools or trains to avoid overnight costs. This one factor that alone will likely keep us in the mix for coming years regardless of anything else.
I don’t think we’re far away either.
The four newbies we blooded this year will stand to us. More game time into the likes of Hession, Maclaughlin, Conroy and Cillian.
More year on year progression from boys like Flynn, Carney and Carr.
Another option (or two) around the middle, a new pacy wingback, and another fullback option. (Like a lot of people I’d love to be able to move McBrien out to 6, but would be happy if we find an option during the league, even if that option has to wait until 2025 to get a championship run).
I can’t wait for 2024 tbh, The championship was more open than the final suggests it was, and I don’t see where either of the top two are going to find new players to push things on. Only one starter last weekend was playing in their first final, tells it’s own story
Kerry chairman having a pop at officialdom . Sorry but i cant help but smile to myself thinking of Limerick 2014 and not a word from any Kerry officials on what was the worst refereeing performance i ever witnessed .
Fair play @Corick….I haven’t seen as tenacious a bit of defending since Chrissie B.left the stage. #Priceless.
Mayo well capable of beaten either of those teams on a given en day, but need to do it on big days and hitting peak at the right time.
2hope your welcome,Gizmo no games until January
Next year Maybe Corick wed December game in 2022 v Down
It was fairly common knowledge at the time, but then icing on cake was John Maughan I think, who rightly let cat out of the bag during the Live stream of Sligo game going on about it.
Luckily it seems no sanctions came out of it, the last thing we need is more fines on top of our debt for playing illegal unsanctioned games off season.
Corrick as another matter of interest what did you think of how Dublin and Kerry were set up on Sunday and where did you think the game was won and lost
1985,on the field where all the games are won and lost,although I must admit that I have lost a few games my self on the high stool,I don’t want to criticise anyone but you would have to question how easily Dublin were able to run through the Kerry defence,perhaps they did not have a defence coach
Indeed corrick I thought that might be your answer although I have no idea what the high stool reference is about
1985, presuming he means he plays cards or the Guinness game, can’t think of many other barstool sports he could have lost when playing. Blind date I suppose could be another one.
Splitting the G was one game I used to pride myself on, but it is harder now due to the range of Guinness glasses out there with volume needed to hit the mark differing.
Gizmo,not really,just discussing how easily it is to apportion blame,when in reality almost always the best team wins,but I am now thinking that according to a lot of posters six months is long enough to get everything right,perhaps we should criticise Jack O’Connor because he has more than enough time to figure out a plan to beat Mayo,
Corick, you queried my ability to understand the calendar yesterday. It appears your teacher and not mine who has let you down:
1. November
2. December
3. January
4. February
5. March
6. April
7. May
8. June
Won’t include October which was pod training, S&C, analysis, tactical stuff etc.
Season only started in January
Right so in your mind the months of training, in-house games and inter-county challenge game in months before January 2023 do not count towards time management spent developing players, getting a style of play in place, defensive system, attack plan, kick out strategy etc?
You’d want to get on to the county board they’d have a fair bit of expenses to claim back 🙂
Gizmo/Corick – I don’t know what everyone else thinks, but I’m finding this sniping you’re both engaging in a tad tiresome.
Willie Joe – you were like David Gough with James McCarthy last Sunday – you let a lot of late tackles go before you finally brought out the yellow card for the two lads!!
Ah good tactical yellow I’m happy to take South Mayo Exile 🙂
I think we are really seeing the result of all those losses since 1989 boiling over and as fans we are all terrified that we just slip into irrelevance for decades which can happen if we self destruct look at Offaly in football and hurling and look at Cork in hurling who would ever believe they would go 18 years without an All Ireland.
In light of the current panel and management though we cant curse them with the sins of the past. Of course we still have to recognise old failings and fix them because any other approach is la la land stuff.
However the current team have to be allowed to run their race as though the past didnt happen………as much as possible.
This was a terrible championship. I think the McStay interview was a missed opportunity. He should have just said ‘not good enough we have to fix it’…..that kills it but he didnt.
I personally do not discount the league victory its damn nice to have that.
Looking at the year in the cold light of day though you have to recognise that when McStay said ”I dont see a transition in Mayo” he was reasonably expecting Oisin Mullin to be a man to build the future around and the real likelyhood of having Lee Keegan for probably 2 or 3 more years.
Losing those guys was massive and no one is telling me that McBrein at 3…..Lee in the corner and Oisin at 6 is not a different proposition. Thats hard for these guys to deal with.
If Sunday has shown us anything it that if you cant get your best guys on the pitch then you wont win The Championship. For all their advantages Dublin couldnt do it last year without Con OCallaghan……and they couldnt do it without Mannion, McCaffrey and Cluxton either and look at their base. Arguably Kerry couldnt do it this year without David Moran. Kilkenny could’nt do it in 2014 without Shefflin.
So I think while yes the year was a disaster to be straight there are mitigating circumstances and just because of our history we cant let frustration be the emotion and anger dominate proceedings.
Having said all of that losing to Cork struggling with Louth and getting hammered by Dublin adds up to disatre and to be honest its hard to figure out decision taken in all of these games so alot has to go on management too.
Very worrying for me is our decline at Midfield and the fact that there is no obvious solution and you dont just ”find” intercounty footballers now like your did 40 years ago.
In terms of additions to the panel (and not a solution to midfield) its very hard for me to understand the omission of Fergal Boland and I wonder is there a chance of seeing the likes of Eoin O’Donaghue back in Ireland or even Ciaran Treacy who felt there was more in him having listened to him on the POD in April.
Hopefully we can improve 5 or 6 guys by 20% or so and that will help to close the gap.
@freethe east bank agree with you think all the losses are starting to boil over. Does help we had our worst exit since 2006!
I really dont think we are far off though a many say . Yes was such a dissapointing championship. I like mcstay and I think he will come good I just think he needs to shake things up next year and not peak to soon ha!
League is for trying out new players not going 100 miles an hour ( though his first season probably wanted to prove something straight off maybe ).
we just couldn’t keep that stamina up but I think if we hit championship like we did the league we would have at least been in a semi we just ran out of gas .
Kerry( if Clifford on top form) Derry (for sure)
and dubs (I wonder though if the same guys don’t stick around next year) will probably be in the top for sam next year
Then you have us/Galway maybe Tyrone following up.
I think next year is wide open as was this year and i haven’t lost faith just yet ha!
Signs were there in the league also , Roscommon game , Armagh game , Monaghan game (yes we had already booked our place , still not good ) , league final itself very lucky to hang on , Colm Reape motm tells its own story . Then Ros championship game , ok we were buckled from league final , Louth game again caught out at the last period of the game , Cork game and finally Dublin game totally folded in the second half , looked startled by Dubs increase in power and pace . It was terrible . Now mcstay has said there was no issue with fitness , conditioning whatever you want to call it . Surely there has to be an issue when all the evidence is pointing towards a tendency to score a serious amount less than the opposition is the last 15 mins (that stat I’m guessing )
Each person makes valid points here, all correct in one way or another.
But how does one legislate for this, where an RTE presenter out celebrating with some Dublin players in the days after the All Ireland.
Some players have a knack or a way of getting away with things, I saw this on Sunday and have been seeing if for years.
I don’t like saying this but Mayo and many other Counties will find it impossible to break the mould in the years ahead.
The Dubs have a grip on things and built up experience on how to win those titles, media in their pockets, Gaa HQ, etc.
Forget about the dubs, kerry mayo etc.. Unless the rule makers change this dung we are watching It doesn’t matter who wins.. The blanket defences, recycling etc.. There is maybe 5 mins of excitement if two teams mirror each other.. Kerry scored 2 points from play in the first half Sunday.. Like that’s unheard of. The game is finished as a spectacle if it continues. Rule makers need to change it… Club level is nearly worse and esp here in mayo.. Atrocious stuff to watch.
I agree with a lot of that Bate The Blanket. However, the media and offialdom cannot be blamed for Gavin White’s appaling handpass which led to the Dublin goal, or D. Clifford missing several scoreable chances (by his standards).
But definitely a Dublin monster now firmly exists and has done for a number of years. Aside from all the advantages they have, their biggest weapon now is their ability and know-how to win tight finals down the stretch, to get over the line. And of course all the things you mentioned above have helped them get there. But now they can pretty much do it on their own. Scary.
Small margins,I watched the game again and for the Con Callaghan goal chance Dublin turn over the ball and get a free in their own half, Kilkenny takes the free but hand passed it instead of kicking it, not allowed a free in.
You’re right Liberal. Winning tight games is a habit and it can be very hard to break the stranglehold. Now and again Kerry,a Nordie and hopefully ourselves will sneak in and plunder one but they’ll be around,no question.
That’s what makes ’21 all the more galling but it’s up to our management to figure this one out.
I know a lot of posters feel and seem to think that Dublin are unstoppable, home advantage, media on their side, etc, correct only to a degree. As in the Ukraine / Russia War, if you listen to lies, you’ll believe them eventually. It’s exactly the same with the Irish media, they’re like the British and American media, now on steroids.
What you saw last Sunday was a Dublin team that recalled three boys back this year, they closed out a tight game with absolute composure through experience, compounded by the the conservatism and off radar mitigations of Kerry.
Dublin’s star is and will be in retrograde from now on, their sun is beginning to set, and will do so fir quote sometime, yes, they will be always there in the business end of the championship, but mark my words, and I’m not a betting man at all, I’ll bet my car, artwork and job on the line here, that Dublin’s best days are going to be gone for sometime now.
Their younger stock, are decent, but not good enough, as was the case before, they cannot keep relying on the older crew of the 3 wise men to keep on saving them, they’ll be a year older next year, the younger players that are trying to break into the team, just will not accept the three boys to stay on, that will only turn other potential younger players off, then that will lead to resentment, loss of interest, football in trouble with soccer taking over again, this is exactly what happened with Dublin in 1987, too many old guys became greedy, stayed on, happened with us here in Kerry in 1987 too. The only difference this time, is that AIG Dublin is now a winning brand, intermittently it has to emphasised. Dublin will not be as hungry next year, this needs to be taken advantage of too by the rest of us.
So I would be very hopeful next year for the Mayo’s the Kerry’s, possibly the Derry’s etc,
I could be completely wrong here altogether, but it is what I sense, I’ve been going to All-Ireland Finals since 1985.
Personally, I would have preferred if Derry had taken us out in the Semi Final, as on the 4th of January last, I predicted a Dublin All-Ireland win by between 2 – 4 points, not with Kerry in it at all.
This Kerry team is the worst team since the overrated 1997 All-Ireland Kerry team, we’re not as good as the noughties side, and we are not ven in the same orbit as the legendary Golden Year’s Kerry side.
Still, last year, we performed those rare feats of winning the Quadruple, McGrath Cup, League, Munster Championship and All-Ireland. But we last a lot of things this year, we lack steel and composure in the home straight. Nice guys can and do win, but with steal, grit and determination. It needs to be channelled effectively. Case in point, the greatest ever sporting dynasty, greatest ever sports team, the Soviet Union Ice Hockey Red Army team were mesmeric to watch, they reinvented the game of ice hockey, that virtually won all brfore them throughout the 1970’s and 1980’s. Kerry won 5 in a row All-Ireland Junoir titles, we won 5 in a row All-Ireland Minor titles, that’s 300 All-Ireland medals, where have they gone to? Last Sunday, we virtually had the same team as in 2019, that’s not progress at all, Jack O’ Connor lied in April, stating that this team was better than ladt years. No way, starting 3 players that won an All-Ireland in 2014!! That’s 9 years ago!! You wouldn’t see any other county do that, we simply do not have the strength in depth at all, yet according to the aforementioned titles above won, we should have quality, A, B and even C Senior teams based on those accolades won.
Anyway, I’m only 1 person out of 157,000 plus expressing an opinion down here, I could be wrong, I could be right, but think it’s important to point out those facts at the same time.
Hopefully Mayo or Kerry will do it next year and beyond.
Apologies,Willie Joe,I have abused the hospitality of the blog I will try and behave in future, we can now look forward to the club championship
@Micko, I am around a long time too, and always try and tell it the way it is, nothing against the Dublin players, they are great ambassadors for the game, Athletes, footballers and are winners with a great mindset.
But Dublin has everything going all the advantages, even Referees in the big games actually living there and using their home club as their identity, it would be the same as me using the name of my home club and living in a different province.
I just get the feeling that we are being fed with a lot of horseshit through the Dublin based media,
The latest is this spoof re the presumed retirement of the manager and a good few team members.
For the life of me I don’t know why some Counties this year agreed to play 3 games in as many weeks, surely Mayo Board and management should have stood against this and got other Counties in the same boat and Boycotted the quarter final. Did they not learn anything from 2019.
It may or may not have made any difference but the players would be in better fettle for a game 2 weeks away rather than one.
Kerry will be there next year also along with the Dubs.
The irony of it all is that I think it was a Kerry man that got the ball rolling in Dublin Gaa a good number of years ago through huge Funding, but they obviously spent it wisely in regards to Coaching etc.
Corick Bridge I have always found your posts mesaured and full of optimism and maybe tongue in cheek expectations sometimes. hopefully we will get to see Sam cross the musical bridge in the not too distant future .
Micko, I don’t agree the 97 team was overrated..ye had seamus moynihan, one the best ever, darragh o se, one the best ever, and maurice Fitz, one the best ever… Thats just 3 that would get in any team anytime.. Plus ye had the hassett bros, Mike frank dara o cinneide pa Laide, Liam o Flaherty, breen… If that’s bang average what were the teams ye beat like?
Glorydays,thank you,always tongue in cheek
U20 management appointment will be interesting, some interesting backroom team combinations being put together. Was there a date when job posted on when hoped to have filled?
Thanks Gizmobobs and Corick Bridge for taking my small chiding of you in the spirit it was intended. This place is all the better for your respective contributions to it.
Folks….living in Dublin I never get a chance to see club football unfortunately…….
Might get a chance over the next couple of weekends and into September.
What games would be the ones to watch out for apart from the late round of championship
FreetheEastBank, that was a really interesting, thought provoking post. Thank you.
I think we are afraid of receding into nothingness and at the same time we have stubborn hope. It feels good and wholesome to name the fear though. It can be a painful place to be – for now – in that in-between space.
I like that you said that we have to give these young lads the chance to play as if the past hasn’t happened. (I hope they keep the Mayo intensity and physicality though).
It was really eye-opening what you said about McStay saying initially that we weren’t a team in transition and then Keegan and Mullin left. That was bound to affect the calculation. As you say, he’d have been seeing them in there with new young talents like McBrien. It makes it all the more commendable and impressive for me the work that management did in Spring to bring that spirited young team together the way they did, and to get them playing with self-assurance and confidence.
Your point about needing your best players to win is convincing and you reference Dublin needing Mannion, McCaffrey and Cluxton to win. That appears very clear to me. To echo Micko, I’d have to feel Dublin are vulnerable in the next year or two when some of these players retire (Mannion might stay). They came back to prove the mettle and excellence of a Dublin team who were great but who had been beaten in 2021 and 2022. What an unusual move. Mayo might be one of the teams to turn them over in the next few seasons.
I too wonder about Fergal Boland and I liked him – a skilful player, who can score, has pace, who can react quickly and has gumption. These are the players we want – who have character. I think of Boyler and Tom Parsons, who were dropped by managers, but who came back in and became great Mayo players.
Let’s see what next season will bring. I am a bit tired of the Dublin dominance now too. But am I only tired that we aren’t competitive? We’re climbing the ladder again.
Batetheblanket, absolutely ? ? Correct.
Kickitin, yep, Diffrerent era im cognisant of that, but that Kerry 1997 team had a lot of stars in it, unfortunately though, they consolidated anything won by pushing on, hence my statement of being overrated. That’s what I meant in that context. Loved those players, Maurice Fitzgerald, the kicking master, Moynihan, one of the most full backs ever, Laide, the speed merchant, Mike Frank Russell was an absolute gem of a player loved those players, most if the others were average, especially the Hassetts, the rest of that backline, Flaherty and Breen, very effective, but they were just big drinking mullockers, no football in them at all really, as they just never backed it up really for the stardom in that team, they lost out to a decent, but not great Kildare team in August 1998, and list out to a poor Cork side on a wet July day in 1999. They should have won more.
I’m also cognisant of the fact that I’m on a Mayo Forum, as an outsider, I have welcomed really well by Willie Joe and all posters on here, and I really do not want take up time, nor hijack any space on Kerry football speak, that would be wrong and unfair.
Don’t get why some people not just on this blog but in general think it’ll be dubs/ kerry final again next year an that dubs will win Sam next few years ha dubs will be in trouble when the guys who came back go…
Kerry well you know about them..
I think Derry are the ones to watch for next year ..be a bit of a dogfight again in division 1 what with dubs/kerry/Galway/ Derry ha wonder how we will do be Derry haha
But honestly I don’t think it’ll be another dubs v kerry final next year at all. Kerry were also lucky that we screwed up v cork as they would have played Galway in pre quarters and would kerry have beaten gem? Doubt it.
Willie Joe ,I am more than happy to be able to air my views on your blog,is by far the best blog on show,you are more than kind in your comment,and I will certainly behave myself in future,Micko you are very measured in your comments,I must say walking out of Croke Park in 97 that Kerry supporters were embarrassed about the match,in my opinion it was one that Mayo left behind,probably the most painful one for me,but Kerry found a way to win,so well done,I must say that I always enjoy outside comments on the blog because it gives us an insight on how other counties are us,Gamechanger is always fair, as are Galway and Dublin supporters,because sometimes we are only talking to ourselves,I am sure that Kerry will be in the mix next year
Well they may have beaten Galway but Galway were tough in pre quarters so not sure if kerry would have ha
I think Micko had a decent point about the 300 AI minor media in Kerry since 2014 – but yet very few players from ages of 20-24 are in that Kerry squad. I feels like Jack O’Connor has nailed his colours to the mid to late 20s group and favours maturity over youth. 11/15 players from 2019 started on Sunday, that’s a very stable and mature group. He’s doesn’t seem to place much emphasis on developing new young talent for the senior county team from what I can see?
Ironically Paudie Clifford is one of the best players and he never played minor at all.
89, 96, 97, 12, 13, 16, 17, 21, all arguably ones that got away!! Sorry, don’t mean to start that oul debate again, but maybe we’ve only ourselves to blame.
Mark Ronaldson cited an interesting stat in this week’s Western. Since ’89 Mayo have lost 12 All Ireland finals, every one they’ve been in, and Dublin have won 12, every one they’ve been in. Christ what a depressing statistic.
@liberal role in the tie… jaysus that’s depressing can see why we don’t get much respect from the likes of kerry etc but maybe we do only have ourselves to blame … :/ but next year we might change those statistics : p haha
I agree micko, altho kerry won another all ireland in 2000 with much same team.. I do listen to tomas o se podcast, he’s got some great guests on.. You’d be particularly interested in the one with Ryan mcmenamin.. Just looking back over the rivalry and craic they had also v Tyrone… But one general theme with guests like Willie Joe, brolly, etc, the utter disgust for this possession based blanket stats driven shite.. As a spectacle it’s depressing to watch. No off the cuff stuff cos lads are afraid to make a mistake… Over and back.. Defences blocked up.. No skill at all anymore, or very little unless Clifford or mcmanus takes a ping from somewhere. What u reckon micko, far from what your used of watching in the kingdom foy yrs.
To win Sam we’ll ultimately need a plan that works backwards from that goal.
It’s that scientific. In fact, I think a mathematician or scientist would have the better logic skills as to what such a plan would consist of.
For me we don’t have the overall clubs ecosystem to produce enough elite players.
That is what primarily needs addressing.
A scientist would look at what clubs are producing the players, then form a plan around getting more players from more clubs.
We are putting our resources evenly across the county.
What is needed is a more targeted approach to improve the non player producing black spots.
That would give us at least 1/3 more elite players than we have been producing.
@Jp
I’ve a mathematics background, and there’s an old joke that we have that is pertinent here.
A horse trainer wants to gets his hands on the fastest horse possible, so he meets with three experts, a nutritionist, a breeder and a mathematician, to get the best advice possible.
The nutritionist comes in and says I have worked the perfect balance of hay, nuts and oats to give a horse to achieve the best possible speed.
The breeder comes in and says, if we take this super fast male and this super fast female, we should get an even faster offspring.
The mathematician sits down and says “so we start with a perfectly spherical horse…”
The point being mathematics and logics is not a panacea. Stick to what you know and don’t seek high and mighty solutions to practical problems
Jp, that is, I’m sorry to say absolute baloney.. We need someone who’s able put the ball over the bar from fuckim 30 or 40 yrds.
You are absolutely correct Kick It In.
Gaelic football and soccer, particularly our own football is stifling that burst of organic flair and spontaneity of skill is all lacking.
Players were just as hardy as they are now, farming, building sites and personal beach / mountain training were S&C back then, except now, we’ve mechelen men from the Ghostbusters on the pitch! Sponsored by Geordie Shores! All British / American instantaneous gratification mentality now. Sadly that’s change for you, but change isn’t necessary a good thing neither. It is either bad or good change.
This weekend, I’m going to watch the 1985 All-Ireland Football Semi Final, both games on playback, Dublin v Mayo, watching TJ Killgallon’s brilliant fielding, and that goal of the year by languid Mr. Durkan. Wet day for that match, replay. I was only 9 back then.
The weather this summer, like that in 1985, the summer of the moving statues, pity our midfield had a few statues that didn’t move much last Sunday!! but this summer’s weather is far worse than 1985, I’ll watch the final though Dublin v Kerry.
Nice to look back, society was not as cynical back then and materialistic as it is today.
Today’s game, it is really paralysis by analysis, I remember back then Jack O’ Shea could score with a three step approach and belt a ball well over the bar from 50 yards out easily, Willie Joe Padden could do it, lots could do it back then. The scoring zone, the kill zone, the retention phase, the recycle, it is all crap. Today it’s all about retention, all straight jacketed by fear, just in case you’d be pulled ashore in being substituted, lose your place and your trophy girlfriend ( GAGS ) loss your free car when your cut from the panel. All gone too materialistic for me, and I’m young.
Micko I was at that 1985 semi final and replay .I think it was Willie joe padden with the high fielding and Padraig brogan with the goal of the year although Noel durcan did score a goal in the opening minutes of the drawn game
Kick it in, I agree with you! I think this is the core of it.
Micko, how wonderfully nerdy taking a trip back to 1985 to watch those games! I remember the wet summer that year and the TV coverage of the moving statues. (And in our house, we got a pet lamb called Susie that year, who became a legend in her own right).
And on that, Kick it in and others, do ye think it was Conor McManus’s amazing kicking skills that have kept Monaghan so tenaciously competitive these last few years?
I’m asking because I genuinely don’t have the all-round knowledge of Monaghan to know more.
But it does seem to me that having a reliable gymnastic-like scoring forward like this can keep you in the game right up to the final whistle.
I’m not talking about marquee forwards actually. I don’t think Kick it In was, either.
I’d love our players to be scorers.
Bernard Brogan didn’t start out as a dangerous scorer; neither did Andy Moran.
I take from this that players can develop these skills.
Was Donie Vaughan a natural scorer?
Or Jordan Flynn?
I wouldn’t say so but they’ve made themselves reliable in this area. I really like that.
Someone who is a natural scorer is Diarmuid, yet he has been taken away from the scoring zone due to lots of other responsibilities.
Thanks swallow swoops
As you said there was commendable work done in early season but ultimately the championship was a failure and this means that the season is a failure really other than the development work done which we hope is there and you never see on a scoreboard immediately at least.
Dont forget this can turn quick. In 2009 when Kerry hammered Dublin no one thought Dublin would win in 2011 and dominate for a decade. I remember talking to hurling folks in Limerick in 2016 and we often talked Mayo and Limerick and heartbreak…..and none of them seen what came 2 years later for Limerick.
To be honest walking out of Longford in 2010 did any of us predict the next 10 years……..in 2010 the narrative was Cork would dominate football for the forseeable future ………and Ireland would never get unemployment below 13%……Cork havent won since and as of today unemployment is 4.2%………..
I wouldnt give up on this project yet and I do think we have the right management in place to remain consistently competitive ……and win it before they end their term. We have to fix the ”old failings” though to be fair we are all sick of ”learnings”!!!
Dubs / Kerry domination to continue is a reasonable prediction imo. Neither will have difficulty finding replacements for players moving on,, unlikely to be disruptive enough to knock them off the podium
Of the chasers, definitely a northern team, maybe Derry,
Of the pretenders, I hope we get out of that category.
The breakthrough for the rest will depend on astute managemen. Both Dublin and Kerry were outstandingly managed on the day. The game became like a game of chess with moves and responses
The introduction of Jack McCaffrey was the masterstroke that tipped the balance in Dublins favour imo.
Nothing McStay/ Rochford said in recent interviews convinced me they are going to lead us into the promised land. McStays not taking responsibility for the CHB mess, and Rochfords comment that our problems began with the defeat to Cork, were depressing analyses of our season
Management role will come under the spotlight in 2024, they have a little time to get their act together
What I found odd about Rochfords interview was that he said he wasn’t aware of any conversation going on about the Loftus role before the cork game ,really no mention of it at all even though mcstay had said before that it was just noise.in any case I would still be hopeful they can turn it around but I think mcstay has to take command of the situation now .Unfortunately the management themselves made a scapegoat out of the poor crossmollina lad .constantly playing him in a position that didn’t suit him and then dropping him like a stone and not seen again.The perception of that is fairly obvious.Kevin mcstay has waited a long time for this job and the next 3 years will go by very quickly and I am sure he won’t want to be remembered for the sort of calamitous stuff we saw in this year’s championship
@1985. They must be living in their own bubble.
McStays failure to take responsibility “it didn’t work out for Conor”. Did Conor ask to be the anchor man if a daft defensive structure.
Rochfords analysis, the Cork game was a turning point, did he not see anything wrong with the Louth game or the league game v Roscommon. Failure to consolidate games against weaker oposition
Okay, some might think absolute baloney.
Explain then the massive statistical variation between clubs providing senior players. It’s not small, it’s a massive variation.
That means we are not picking at all from the full spam of clubs int the county.
That’s the maths part.
The solution part then is putting in place targeted support to those clubs and schools.
To give you….
Players who can kick the ball over the bar.
There are clubs with medium picks who have not provided one player in a generation.
It’s a prime thing we need to fix.
Jp, it’s nothing to do with club variation, I guarantee you that most IC and club teams are spending hours of training on defensive shape and kickout strategy instead of kicking the football, developing weaker foot.. But there is no need because everyone is playing this possession based, atrocious blanket.. Sure thats more important… Its the rules that need changing to provide a spectacle and entertainment.. Its our national game, and it’s fucked.
To think that a keeper can actually come out and just play around in midfield or actually go and score.. Its making a mockery out of the game.. But its win at all costs, fuck the entertainment.
Some people here are on about conor Loftus at 6 and mcstay didn’t do this and that… That’s fine but the real problem here is the state of current football.. I watched 2005 final this eve, great game.. Great scores, hard tackling, no recycling and holding the ball, afraid to make a mistake… My god we’re a long way from that.. An average team has every chance of beating a good football team now.. Set up defensively, keep it tight and low scoring and you’ve a chance… Absolutely horseshit.. Sorry folks but I feel strongly about the state of it… And if these cocks of lawmakers don’t sort it soon… Less and less will be watching
Ah Micko, you would swear Kerry haven’t won that many All Irelands they are still way out in front of the pack.
I have watched some of the older finals and tonight it’s the 1997 final on the watchlist.
We may as well look at how football was once played.
Jack O Connor has now lost 2 finals v the Dubs, I read somewhere probably in his book that he never looked back at it on YouTube or whatever.
Maybe by the time that Mayo comes up with a very solid defensive structure the game will have evolved by then, the game has changed so much since the 1980’s.
People not happy when management teams talk and when they don’t talk.
This whole omerta business in the GAA is keeping Gaa put of the limelight and will eventually cause problems with sponsorship
No intercounty football from end of July to February is asking space for other sports and will come back to bite in the future
Not starting the club championship until the end of August is an absolute joke.
Is it to facilitate players going to play in America?
It’s not about management talking or not talking.it’s what they say in interviews is obviously important.James Horan in his final year basically stopped communicating almost completely with no information on injuries or anything else as his era slowly faded away .This is a forum on mayo football and if what the management have to say isn’t a topic of conversation then there would be very little point in them giving interviews in the first place
1985, it’s showbiz baby, Sure haven’t we a communication manager on board the McStay train now 🙂
Looking forward to the league final the weekend, the two main contenders for Moclair cup going toe to toe.
How they approach it will be interesting. Will it be shadow boxing or laying down of a marker? I reckon they’ll both be going for it.
Both will likely have starters missing, stragglers on last of the pre-championship holidays and the likes.
But should be an intriguing game, Castlebar from games I’ve seen in last couple of seasons are very defensive, how Westports forwards go against it will be interesting to see.
The last 10 minutes against Cork and the 10 minutes after half time against Dublin has nothing to do with communication from management.Its about this Mayo team not been cute enough to stop a rut when teams get on top of us.Where is the management of getting players to drop into a blanket or slow the game down, have plenty of kickout options, or for a player to go down with an injury to kill the momentum of the game or atmosphere e.g the Hill after a Dublin goal, our forwards trying to buy a free if there finding it hard to get scores on the board.
Also been tuned in after scoring a goal.When Tommy Conroy got that goal v Cork we concede a penalty straight away why arent the players more tuned in.
Also we are conceding way to many goals to contest for an All Ireland
2 v Roscommon
1 v Louth
1 v Cork
2 v Dublin
Cluxton only conceded 1 goal this year the Paul Geaney goal on Sunday.This is the level we have to get to.
Midfield needs serious surgery this winter we need to have a high fielder in centre field to contest with Brian Fenton or a Conor Glass.Its not in Ruane or Diarmuid O’Connors game to field ball.So only one of them can play here.What has happened all the big tall midfielders in Mayo football, we used to always have them back through the decades.
Would like to see this team start next championship campaign
1.Colm Reape
2.Sam Callinan
3.David McBrien
4.Jack Coyne
5.Enda Hession
6.Diarmuid O’Connor
7.Eoghan McLaughlin
8.Jack Carney
9 .Bob Tuohy
10.Matty Ruane
11.Ryan O’Donoghue
12.Jordan Flynn
13.Aidan Orme
14.Cillian O’Connor
15.Tommy Conroy
https://youtu.be/J3Fz6XipVug
Mayo v Dublin match analysis
@Achill75 good team choice not to sure about aiden orme though tbh. I’d still stick with James Carr ver him I think he just needs more game time yes he’s on /off at times but should be given another chance .
Definetly want to see more of Bob touhy but he maybe a bit young yet hopefully gets some game time..
Would Paddy Durcan not be worth a spot Achill?
Definetly paddy durcan should9 be there ! Some player didn’t have a great chpionshio but a put that down to do the injury he got set him back a bit . Hes a key player for us
Cillian o connor does not have pace for intercounty. Never the fastest but at thus stage of career too far off the pace.
Achill75.. You’ve no scorers from 5 to 10 and tuohy is only young.. You left out mayos best player and captain.. ?
Achill and fellow posters . Getting midfielders that can compete with Fenton or Glass is easier said than done . Bob a great prospect but a bit light yet .
Flynn and Carney may be worth a look at in the league next season.
We can only work with the players we have .
I’d expect the league to be treated much differently next season.
Honestly wouldn’t care if we were relegated if we unearthed a few new ballers .
Nathan Moran Hollymount is quite good in the air and naturally physical.
He’s also quick and a decent passer.
If he committed and came in he’d possibly go up a level benefitting from SnC.
Does anyone have any idea if Mayo will be going to New York next April? It would be nice to know at this stage as arrangements need to be made.
Not all players are prepared to give the commitment necessary for inter county football for various reasons.
We may unearth 1 or 2 but more importantly I hope we avoid long term injuries.
Our younger backs will be a year older and a year wiser.
Need Durcans and Coens experience IMO
Will be interesting to see how the likes of Brickendon and Joe Touhy go this weekend and into the championship if fit. If we could unearth another full back option and possibly move Mc Brien to 6. That would strengthen our spine considerably , although I like McB at 3.
Some in Mitchell’s rate Joe as being a better footballer than Bob,and a couple of years older of course.
I do think the focus should be on blooding new players for 24 and maybe 25. The league and new championship format gives plenty of scope to do that. . It’s a difficult balance for management, do they hold onto experienced foot soldiers to keep us in the running for the next couple of years or do they tip the balance in favour of the young guys . By 26, we should have a hardened competitive panel of players.
The club championship is the shop window, but I agree with a poster above, long periods of uncontested lateral and back passing is crippling the entertainment..
No decision on that as yet, On the Road Again. There’s an emerging feeling within the counties that that particular exercise may have run its course, largely in light of the expense involved but also because the fixture has to be played a week after the League final. The Yanks could, as a result, be coming to Castlebar next year, though that’s yet to be confirmed.
Spectre.
You are a brave man dropping Cillian O Connor. He can manage without the burst of speed as he so strong and a reader of the game. Just look at the points he scored against Roscommon and Galway and take into account he was not yet at his sharpest as he was coming back from injury. Look at Monahan’s McManus he has also a player who would not be a speed merchant and at 35 is still a top intercounty player.
@spectre we missed cillian o Connor experience big time in championship no way would I drop him anyway he’s also a guaranteed scorer.
I think that’d be really cool if New York came to Castlebar. It just sounds like a real event.
The timing issue still stands a bit though, being a week after the League Final.
O connor has far more mileage than mcmanus having been to many all irelands. Mental and physical baggage. Without turn of pace in the full forward line ur easily snuffed out. A few cameos is not enough to convince me. Pitch him against top defences and its not happening. We gotta move forward. Not backways. Great servant but the tank is empty
Mark Ronaldson’s exact quote:
“Dublin have not lost an All Ireland decider since losing to Down in 1994 – a run of 12 finals. Mayo have not won an All Ireland decider since losing to Meath in 1996 – a run of 12 finals. A contrasting tale of two counties”.
Spectre, I agree O’Connor an impact sub for 10 minutes or so at best.
Let’s see what he does in the County Championship.
More worrying is that Diarmuid fades out of games and goes down cul de sacs so often.
Perhaps he would benefit from a change of position.
Cillian is a goal scorer. Needs time on the pitch to do that.
There was a ton of examples of goalscoring opportunities we butchered with a sloppy final pass. Cillian does not do that.
@Frosthammer I hope you are right, but an awful lot of mileage and injuries.
Let’s see on the league.
There all burned out guys. Ya wont make all ireland winners out of the old guard now. Its not in them any more.
Ah bit harsh on cilian o Connor. Every time he came on when he was fit enough he proved his experience and scoring rate . I wouldn’t be cutting him off the 6eam just yet !!
Also you need a kix of young & old to and actually cillians not that old ha!
If Cillian played against Tyrone he would have nailed the penalty and we would have won.
Don’t like left footed penalty takers.
Ryan o Donaghue is right footed.or is that just a general comment
Not that Ryan is a left foot penalty taker.@Jr
@JR your totally right there cillian wouldn’t have missed it .
Though I always felt bad for Ryan for that. I think Ryan o D just lost his nerve that day as did a lot of other guys I remember them during the walk about the pitch and the commentators go my god mayo are very young team compared to Tyrone and oisin mullin looks extremely nervous even and they did .
But sure I try and blank 21 from the memory as we all do !!
Jesus poor ould Brolly is flat out burning bridges. We don’t want him and he can’t go home now either. One’s heart would bleed.
Sorry Mrs.B.
@ 2 hops a general comment.
Penalty was a big responsibility on young shoulders.
Just look at the penalties missed in big soccer games by over paid professionals taken nearer the goal and into a bigger goal with someone telling the ref if goalie leaves the line.
@JR agree with you thats why I felt so bad for Ryan o d that day he was only soo young lost his nerve as did the rest of our very youg team that day and maybe that’s why he stands his ground now doesn’t get bullied around the place fair play to him we need more the likes of Ryan o ds , Jordans flynn who can take it but give it back to!!
@Clare you are right, my football friends here in Meath say we are too nice to win a final,and they should know!!
We need a few hard men, O, Donohue ,Flynn and Cillian are a start but are choir boys compared to McCarthy and Small.
Ryan o Donaghue was the designated penalty and free taker that year as cillian was injured and he had taken and scored the penalty against Galway in the Connacht final.confidence is something Ryan isn’t lacking in .cillian has missed penalty’s too .All players do .The last left footed penalty taker we had was pat Harte who was reliable from what I can remember
@JR yeah my dub mates say the exact same thing we are just known as to nice /soft. They said the only reason they couldnt stand keegan as a dub fan is cause he stood his ground and gave it right back to anyone… and that’s what you need to be like in gaa !
Sure anyone be a choir boy compared to them never liked small after the eoghan mcghloulin jaw breaking tbh and never will.. there’s giving it back but that was another level!
@ 1985 Did McDonald not score a penalty with his left foot in the 97 final
Yea he did .I said the last left footed penalty taker we had .McDonald finished in 2007 and pat Harte in 2012
McDonald’s penalty in 1997 stood as the last penalty scored in a final for a long number of years
Think mcstay should get guys concentrating on left footers …
On that penalty miss in 2021 there were clear grounds to have it retaken .Niall Morgan came off his line narrowing the angle and two Tyrone players had encroached inside the 20 metre line
Limerick started their senior hurling championship today having won the all Ireland 2 weeks ago.
Here we have no championship for 2 more weeks yet despite being out since 1st July. What’s the reason for that?
Mchale leaving the set up.is a big statement, I understand he’s family ties with mcstay and the time with St Bridgids and Roscommon , something don’t add up and I just wonder where its all gonna end , because I can’t see any shape meaning , to this set up of managers like the stupid things we done this year ,making a freetaker out of o shea a quarter back out of Loftus, and you can play anywhere out of coen because your a lucky captain , this year is gonna be last chance saloon for mcstay , the Honeymoon is over you can talk the talk , now let’s see you walk the walk
The Kerry club championship is starting today – 6 days after the all Ireland final – for clubs that didn’t have players involved with the county panel. All other clubs playing next weekend. They all starting before our championship.
@1985 yeah agree there totally was clear grounds for it to be re taken even the commentators said it to . But sure think in all honesty we still prob would have lost that day .
@Robert in fairness there’s to many managers in the set up I think mcstay should just go it alone next year and go with his gut feelings to many ideas and to many wires crossed with the 3 even two managers.
Here’s hoping we come good next year ha be interesting to see how the club championship goes and of there’s any new talent out there ha.
I 100% agree with Clare. If I was McStay id say thanks very much Stephen for your involvement with Mayo but im the boss im the gaffer time for me to lead this team on my own. Rochford had his time. I dont mean to pick on Rochford but im convinced he’s pulling the strings and his way didnt work before and it wont work now. I genuinely believe the best this management can do is blood a few good young players and a hungry new manager say a Lee Keegan, Andy or Colm Boyle come in and take us forward. Horan had only managed Ballintubber for a year when he came in although he did win a county title.
@Clare/Glory days, McStay was manager this year. Regardless of what input was given by Rochford and co. He is the decision maker. If he went with their ideas it meant he agreed with them or had no alternative of his own. Not sure which is worse or better.
Rochford did appear to becalling the shots this year and they didnt work same as hi sprevious time incharge, also his time in Donegal was a failure, again as no 2 he seemed to be be calling the shots there, Time for McStay to take full control of team and tactics.
@gizmobobs ah but I saw hints of Rochford play come in to affect and didn’t work well for us . Course mcstay is manager but if he didn’t have others in his ear all the time going at him he could just put all his ideas 100% into affect .
Like with aido he always said full forward or nothing and aido did great yes not so great in championship but they all lost the pace in championship after going 100 miles an hour in league..
@Glorydays agree with you to ..Rochford took us as far as he could and we didn’t cross the line don’t mean to be harsh on him just the facts . Think mcstay would be better off going on his own .
Anyone that was in the stand at the Galway game would have seen at least three different players at different times in the second half coming over to the sideline to get instructions from Rochford – so he definitely had a big say.
Now why they had to come over and why the instructions weren’t clearly given before the game and at ht is a different story
Clare for someone so optimistic you seem to have taken a negative turn lately.If the penalty was scored in the 2021 final we would have been a point up and the momentum with us instead minutes later Tyrone score a goal and we are suddenly 5 down .Goals are huge momentum changers .I never thought Tyrone did anything special to beat us in that final.There appears to be something up alright with McHale leaving the set up and from I gather mcstay says little or nothing in the dressing room or in training but time will tell .Nothing against rochford but someone is responsible for the ludicrous game plan or lack of that we witnessed in many games this year
@1985 I am still optimistic and think we will come good next year but I am not delusional either haha !
so I will say if we had a poor exit from championship and not deny that we did .
Still have the faith and will always be behind the guys we have great talents and a young team abd I’m sure we will bounce back ! : )
@clare, what I mean is if manager is strong enough it doesn’t matter who is in his hear. He’ll make the call.
Clare I didn’t call you delusional but my point was about the 2021 final penalty incident.i would generally be in agreement with you on this year’s championship
@1985 I know you didn’t call me delusional haha I was just saying !
Yeah maybe if we had gotten the penalty in with the point ahead we would have gotten momentum back and kicked on but there’s not much point in looking back in 21 to much hurt there for us ha.
@JR. Dublin’s Diarmuid Connolly (A Jim Gavin’s Favorite ) was the last player to score a penalty in an All Ireland Football Final, all be a replay in 2016, an, since Ciaran McD in 1997 . Meaths Trevor Giles, had his penalty saved in 2001 v Galway. Giles had kicked a poor 21 yard free wide minutes beforehand and he looked spooked taking his poor penalty.(was’nt a penalty in the first place) The following year 2002 Armaghs Oisin McConville had his penalty saved v Kerry, mind you he made up for it with an outstanding goal later on in the second half. And of course our own . and of course we all know about 2021.
Just a quick question for the good knowledgeable people on this site.. Does anyone know who the highest scorer in a single championship season is? I want to say stevie O Neill, Tyrone in 2005 or was it Cillian or who?
Surely it has to be cillian o Connor after the huge score he got against tipp in 2021 or Matt Connor would have put up big scores back in the day
I think it’s o Connor ya, 2017 he got 75 points, I haven’t saw more than that.. 2020 he got 4-9 v tipp.. But didn’t get more than 75 in that season.
https://www.gaa.ie/search/crawl/news/cillian-connor-tops-2014-scoring-chart-112340
He was top scorer in 2014 also and when he came back this year after injury the commentators goes gaas top scorer ever so far cillian o Connor… so don’t know why some think he has to much milage on him give me cillian o Connor for my team anyday if we’re manager :p haha
No doubt about his scoring ability Clare.. With packed defences, he’d still be very useful around the D.. You want your best kickers there and speed inside a packed defence doesn’t matter as much anymore.. Conroy, rod, cillian all good kickers, so the mgt team should be coming up with ways of maximising their kicking ability and getting them on the ball, whether it’s off a loop etc.. Can always move in and out to full forward line in open games. But easier said than done I spose.
@kick it in definetly even if used as an impact sub there would be no way I’d be cutting him from the team and I don’t think he’s to old he’s the same age as me :p haha but even in gaa land I don’t think he’s to old for the game at all !!
Yeah your so right there the management should be I think we will see huge improvements next year tbh especially with Tommy conroy back in full force after injury to he be hard stopping as i always say ha
@south mayo exile I can totally see that happening couldnt make the match myself in salthill but I’ve no doubts at all that players went to Rochford for instructions and that he had a big say this year ….
@gizmobobs I totally get that point about a manager should be strong enough to stand his ground on ideas etc but I still think mcstay is the man for the job but to many big voices at once in management there if you ask me haha ..
Cillian will almost certainly be used as an impact sub from now on .His age isn’t the issue it’s the amount of football he has played and the injuries he has had .there are alot of inter county players a fair bit older than cillian that wouldn’t have played anywhere near the amount of games he has played because of our continual involvement in the latter stages of the championship.As for next year we have to find one if not two proper midfielders.No idea where they are going to come from and a proper designated centre back and build the structure around that with a sweeper dropping back when necessary.i refuse to use that ridiculous plus one term again.Dublin have John small and Cian o Sullivan before him in that main anchor role .Kerry have Tadgh Morley although probably a mistake last Sunday that he became occupied by con o Callaghan.There is no doubt that David mcbrien jack coyne and sam callinan were great additions this year and we have conroy and o Donaghue who are as good as any forwards.James Carr could be sensational but just seems to drift along in his own world.I remember the beating we took in tuam in 1995 ironically with mcstay in charge and a year later we came the closest we have ever been to winning the all Ireland.6 point up and then 4 up with ten minutes to go and everyone on the old canal end counting down the clock.Anyway come January we will all be back again like the lunatics we are
@1985 I agree with you in the points you made good post !!
I agree also regards James Carr that he could be sensational but goes off in his own world at times I agree…
If James Carr was on the ball 100% the time he’d be hard stopping like Tommy c .
I think James Carr just needs more game time…I’d stick with James Carr, Ryan o d , Tommy c , and cilian and aido as impact subs !
It would take a brave one to write Cillian off.
If he can get any sort of run of games he still remains a huge asset to us.
I’ve said on here before that many had written Andy Moran off after career threatening injuries but he ended up as footballer of the year at age 33.
Andy was cute enough to find a way to get the job done when the legs were slowing a bit.
Cillian is wily enough to do the same.
@mind the house totally agree with you growing up cillian would nearly be like a Lee keegan to me kind of guy anyway..ha
He’s been sooo unlucky with injuries lately but never write cillian off .
My god he came on v Armagh after injury nearly got a goal by fluke misses it and we were starting to collapse then…
Sorry but anyone who says cillian has had his day needs to look back at games and the Galway one to…
We missed him at his
Full force in championship can’t wait to see next year how many people are calling Time on cillian then..
he was still is an icon to me and many of my mates who give the man a break very unlucky with injuries lately .. all time top scorer of gaa wouldn’t be dropping him anyway just yet ha if you ask me haha
I didn’t write cillian off .ciaran Kilkenny was used as am impact sub this year in some games.people need to read posts properly before jumping in both feet
@1985 no one said you did? There were others on here writing cillian off and saying he had to much milage I didn’t say you wrote cillian off there’s some who have been saying cillian has had to much milage and injuries .
I just seen the results of a poll rating which manager from Colm ORoruke or Kevin McStayhad the best season,whilst I believe that small fish are sweet Meath supporters must be deluded and on mushrooms if they believe that they had a better season than Mayo
@corick Bridge ha your right there !
There is no way meath had a better season . They are no where near mayos level or division 1 level they would have gotten hammered out the gate playing against division 1 teams .
Colm o rourkes delusional ideas must have rubbed off on their supporters we may have to put up listening to him a lot next year haha
Sure look what O’Rourke inherited there from Mcentee for god sake, he’s trying to find a panel of players to first and foremost compete, winning the tailteann is another step, it’ll take time.. He seems to have unearthed a few nice players too.. He was delighted with the win and at least he’s honest…no bullshit corporate shite talk about the “process and systems”.. Listen to the piece he did with brolly and Spillane before the final this Yr, with philly mcmahon.. He’s very refreshing.
Corick you were saying the fbd was a good trophy to win a while ago were u not? So does meath winning the tailteann not matter as much?
Clare agree with you in some things but Cillian isn’t even in the top 10 forwards to ever play regardless of him being top scorer.. Far more natural exciting players over the years.. I understand his importance to mayo at the time but nah, not for me.
@kick it in fair enough..!
Talteann cup is good to win in fairness to meath but how would they have gotten on in division 1? I don’t think they can say they had better season then us even though we had a poor exit 2 totally different competitions!
But o rourke knows they’d struggle in div 1..that’s nothing to do with it
He said they are way off Dublin yet, but looking at mayo, there a fair bit of Dublin too… Beat out the gate after 10 mins of 2nd half. So I wouldn’t be comparing meath mayo and Dublin.. Mile off.
@kick it in but thats what I mean ! Meath can’t be saying that had a better season then us when they are mile off.
We lacked fitness in the championship couldn’t keep the stamina up..that was a major issue this year one reason why we couldn’t close out games and fell apart 2nd half to Dublin . If we played the way we did v kerry against dublin we would have beaten them and kerry weren’t awful in killarney either .
You should read what I posted,I said small fish are sweet
They are sweet, if fresh. If hanging around a while they can be rancid.
Clare, I think what he’s referring to is that O’Rourke inherited a side he knew was miles off, and has been for well over a decade.
He has set about developing a much changed panel from the past season or two, and has guaranteed they will be competing for Sam next year. Which is a decent return for them, while remaining miles off the pace.
They had bad league and improved or at least developed structures and systems from the odd game I saw.
Our season went in other trajectory, starting well and nosediving, while not being in a rebuilding phase.
So while the poll, like the polls on here mean nothing and don’t necessarily reflect realities I can see where that result came from 🙂
Corick you also said meath fans must be deluded, do you think mayo fans are ever delusional?
If you like magic mushrooms
Clare I find your analysis very interesting.we lacked fitness in the championship but would have beaten Dublin if we played like we did against Kerry.Dublin set up very differently to the way Kerry set up against us in Killarney.absolutely no real value in a poll like that .only thing is Meath finished their season on a high and we finished ours in total chaos
@1985 obviously I meant we lacked fitness after the kerry game and thats pretty obvious sure we all know it went down hill after the kerry game and obviously I wasn’t including the kerry game in my point about stamina!!
But why would we suddenly lose fitness after the Kerry game
Maybe because we had a 6 week break before the kerry game? And then we were playing games nearly evry week ?
https://www.balls.ie/gaa/pat-spillane-up-for-the-match-rte-565975?fbclid=IwAR3fDjWr4ENtdD7BUnX5qX8zQsvi6T0c9WHSg3jmBDoUAr8LeBZniOulAvM
Just another story that sums up RTE.They were going to pull the plug on an event on Up for the Match in Templenoe Gaa club if Pat Spillane did not make an appearance.Gaa badly needs its own sports channel or give more rights to Virgin, TG4 or Sky rather than RTE having all the rights if this is the kind of shite thats going on behind the scenes.No respect for the Gaa its a Rugby first channel now.Coverage of this years All Ireland was the worst I have seen since I remember watching finals as a child.
Kick it in,never,never,I say,perhaps it is because we had a serious stomach bug,which no one wants to mention
Well you don’t lose fitness by playing games.The 6 week break was caused by the atrocious display against Roscommon.Kerry for some reason decided to play an open game against us which suits the way we play.once we across teams who weren’t so accommodating we were all over the place and continued to give away terrible goals because of the lack of proper defensive structures and extraordinarily went in against Dublin with no cover in front of our full back line and left a corner back on for 25 minutes who was being scorched alive
We had serious stomach bug problems,we would have hammered Dublin the same way as we hammered Kerry ,otherwise
@1985 it’s tough on guys by playing huge impact games week on week out . So you don’t think dublin had an advantage by having a 2 week break ? After we played a massive game the week before against Galway.?!
Again against the rossies we had just won the league the week before rossies had a bit of a break and played blanket defence .
I agree lots need to be worked on mainly defence and I agree that o hora should never have been played let alone started. But soo many games at once was an issue .
Clare I accept we had tough run of games but that’s the position we put ourselves in and the issues that appeared in the league resurfaced in the championship.I remember someone coming on last Sunday to say don’t be making excuses for Kerry losing and our management didn’t attempt to use that excuse
@1985 I’m not making exsuces just pointing out facts that clearly had an impact but yes wasn’t a great championship at all not saying otherwise .
I hear plenty of exsuces coming out of kerry .
I wasn’t talking about you making excuses.read my post
@1985 I did read your post ha…
Corick sounds like you’ve had a few mushrooms today
I don’t think we should be looking for excuses. It doesn’t soften the blow of a season that started brightly and ended tamely.
Our focus should be on what lessons were learned and where we go from here.
We are fortunate to have a lot of good young players. To make steely leaders out of them to the Dublin/ Kerry level will take time. Our next great team will be without AlOS and Cillian, maybe Diarmuid and Paddy Durcan.
How good a management team have we? Huge doubts as to whether they are capable of putting a competitive panel together. I would let Rochford go as defence coach, and we need to see amuch more active participation from McStay. Is he up for the job, last year I’d have said Yes, this year, I’d reluctantly give him one more year.
“ we would have hammered Dublin the same we hammered Kerry “ Morher of god Willie joe please remove me any time you want .yes and after we hammered Dublin then we would hammer Monaghan by at least 10 points before we aniahalatd Kerry in the all Ireland final
@1985 everyone’s entitled to their opinion . Maybe we would not have hammered dublin but I still think we could have beaten them if we had our tactis right and weren’t off the pace and lost stamina.
Even if we played against kerry in final they certainly wouldn’t have annihilated us sure we beat them twice this year .
Where is this serious illness talk coming out of? I would like to see evidence of that, it’s a wonder management didn’t bring it up more rather than them deflecting blame on to “baby” players / young defenders who will learn from their mistakes.
Where the most evidence points to lack of management know how in setting up a:
– Kick out plan
– defensive structure
– attacking plan for blankets
I didn’t hear about this stomach illness either that they apparently had.
@Gizmobobs yeah agree with you they are very young team and will learn from their mistakes
@Gismobbobs I heard some talk of it before the Cork game , some players had to travel by car to avoid cross infection??
@JR ph really ?? Jeez that sounds bad wonder what it was no wonder then we weren’t at the top of our game.
Strange management didn’t make more of it, if that wide spread, rather than put blame on players…
A player travelled separate for personal reasons. and heard one or two lads had been bit off week before but didn’t hear of “serious” health issues for team. Definitely a better talking point for management than blaming it on players, so I’d have reservations on it.
Most of the team suffered from a serious stomach bug,not all at the same time,but they definitely were sick,perhaps the management don’t believe in making excuses
Corick, they were fairly deflecting onto the young back line and goalie with their comments about “babies” and naming defenders who will look back and learn. So that doesn’t seem to add up.
Some players I know weren’t sick. So while it may have been a factor it was far from our biggest problem this year….
@Gizmobobs I didn’t hear that they shouldn’t have really called them babies if they did . Yes they are very young but that won’t have helped their confidence. They will definetly look back and learn though .
I saw Rochfordsaid he is keen to be back again next year in a leading role . He definetly had a big say in this years set up I just hope it improves next year !!
Seriously Clare “ if they got their tactics right and if they weren’t off the pace and hadn’t lost stamina they might have beaten Dublin.” And besides all that we were in great shape .Now again I will reiterate I have no issue in general with the current management and like any normal mayo person I really hope they can get it right.Kevin mcstay has always come across as a genuine lad but if you don’t analyse what went wrong this year then how can we move forward.there may have been some issue with food poisoning but was that issue there when Roscommon beat us in castlebar and when they waltzed straight through our defence scoring two goals in the Hyde .that’s when the alarm bells should have been ringing but no shur it will fix itself the next day .There is no point someone coming on here telling people to not be making excuses for Kerry losing to Dublin but continues making every excuse possible for our shortcomings.I unfortunately have to repeat we lost 3 out of 6 championship games and took our worst championship beating for 17 years and I did not say Kerry would have annihilated us by the way .not sure why posts are continually misrepresented.Here’s hoping “the learnings “ have been taken and as always come on the green and red
@1985 its my own view on it and I’m entitled to say what I think about it if you don’t like it fair enough your entitled to your own view also.
I also said that I have not been making exsuxes for us loosing I said that we had a poor championship and that management need to fix things and sort out issues no question .
You don’t need to repeat anything I know how many games we have lost etc .
That’s the last I’ll mention about it to you as you don’t seem to get that I said that management of course need to improve from this year next year and I’m not making any excuses.
Clare I didn’t say you were making excuses.I said someone who came on here last Sunday telling people not to be making excuses for Kerry losing the all Ireland final to Dublin but continues to make every excuse possible for our terrible championship season and of course everyone is entitled to their opinion
@1985 apologies I thought that was aimed at me.
I get what your saying it was a really poor exit for us this year in all honesty I thought it was a bad exit last year but I though this year was even worse then sitting I Hogan stand last year in the pouring rain going put to kerry at least we weren’t hammered out the gate the last year unlike we were this year to the dubs .
I know Clare and I have been sitting in the hogan stand every year since the horrendously wet summer of 1985 and shur we will have another rattle at it again next year
@1985 I wasn’t even born in 1985 so thankfully I missed that one ha!
Yeah your right we will bounce back and go again next year like we always do ..
I’m glad dubs won this year better then a county getting it 2 years in a row though if we ever manage two years in a row I won’t be complaining haha !
Kevin McStay had said in his interview that they are planning for going to New York already. i think the trip to New York is a great opportunity for both the counties travelling over and for the Irish people over there. It is a massive fundraising opportunity for counties, and a big opportunity to help grow Gaelic football over in New York. It only happens once every 5 years for counties so I don’t see why they can’t keep it going.
On the road again, yes while not confirmed, the NY trip seems to be proceeding from conversations had with persons on. Board.
Great money spinner for count travelling, need to maximise it as best can.
I don’t really believe in excuses,I only relay the facts as I have heard them, but then I don’t have any agenda either only to attend and enjoy watching Mayo which I have done for about sixty years,it is much better for my enjoyment to leave the Management up to the experts
Agree Corick, which was what was so disappointing about the baby and looking back comments from management.
Hearing something doesn’t make it fact of course, I’ve learnt that from experience the hard way.
Hopefully we will get some experts into our management setup for defence and attack strategy purposes next season now the original Mgt. team has partially broken up, someone with a fresh voice will likely be introduced.
I am more than happy with the experts that we already have
Really? Interesting.
They’ve plenty of learning opportunities to take on board from this and their many other years of experience so hopefully they may actually put the learnings into practice this season coming.
Minor A final tonight, best of luck to both teams
Gizmobobs, I hope you’re right and it does go ahead, it would be lovely to have a trip like that to look forward to.
After listening to Stephen Rochford on Midwest ,I more confident than ever we will be successful next year,no excuses,very measured in his thoughts,we have a brilliant management team in place
@corick I can’t say I have the same confidence in Rochford tbh. His style of play didn’t work well for us this year and he didn’t exactly fly in Donegal when he was up there either .
Think mcstay would be much better off on his own.
@Gizmombobs Really unimpressed with the baby comments made by management think thats pretty patronzing ..they are young alright but young adults !!
@On the road again Would be great to see Mayo go to New York great for the game promoting it and also great for the Irish who play gaa in New York to hopefully it happens!
Mc stay was involved in managing the Mayo senior team in 95 along with Anthony Egan when we were incidently relegated to division 3 and very luck to escape Tuam with only a 10 point hammering so forget about him learning anything if he hasnt learned by now. Rochford has seen it all at this stage with Mayo Donegal Crossmolind and Corofin. I admire your optimism Corick but I dont share it.
Ok people we had a few days of some form of reality before we returned to this factless alternative universe.surely some of these comments cant actually be for real
@corick I’d be on the optimistic side as well. Despite the few mishap we convincingly bet Kerry twice and Galway a few times this year (both well fancied teams). We have a great young goalie and full back line and good full forward line assuming all stick around. The middle third needs a bit of strengthening and restructuring however and a strategy to tone down momentum when the opposition turns it up as was the case with Dublin early in the 2nd half and Cork’s last 10 minutes. Beating the blanket was not really a problem (we were caught for Roscommon on the back of tough match less than a week earlier and Cork we were uncomfortably ahead heading into the final stretch)
So optimistic as well!
Seanie, beating the blanket was not really a problem? It’s been mayos major problem when coming up against that.
Seanie is correct, in my view. Albeit with some difficulty we beat the Louth and Cork blankets, what did for us against Cork (and almost did for us against Louth as well) wasn’t an inability to break down their defence it was our failure to bolt the door at the back.
I’d add also there were times in all those games, as there was in the first half v Dublin, where we had opportunities to add 2, 3 or 4 points on the scoreboard but we didn’t.
In the first half of the Roscommon game I counted seven consecutive shots at goal where we got nothing. 5 wides, 1 short and 1 saved. That’s nowhere near good enough. To win championship games you need a minimum of 70% scoring rate. If we were a seriously ruthless team we should have got 5 scores from those attacks and then the momentum of the game totally shifts in our favour.
In the first half v Dublin we had four attacks where we left scores off the board. Four well created attacks, shots in scoring positions, but came away empty handed. Two very poor wides from play, one dropped short into Cluxtons hands and a very bad wide from a free. Misses like those drain energy from a team while at the same time give your opponent renewed hope.
The naivety displayed by us sometimes is frustrating. Against Cork, we goal to put ourselves in the driving seat to top the group and progress to the easy side of the draw. 6 points clear. 12 minutes to go. Job done. Batten down the hatches, play the clock and manage the game out. Run the bench. Look for your contact lenses. Go down and hold your head. Bring in the physios. Do whatever is required to see out the game. Instead, within 50 secs we allow Cork to run straight down our middle, untouched, not a glove laid on the runner, and then we dive on him when he comes inside our 20m line to conceed a peno!! In what level of football is that acceptable? The Cork player should not have gotten inside our half, he should have been buried between the two 45m lines. If he couldn’t have been dispossessd and tackled within the rules, then he should have been nailed and dragged to the ground. Take the card. Stop the attack. Regroup. Delay. Delay. Delay. In that passage of play alone, I knew we were well off the mark as regards seriously competing for the big honours. This was further compounded by losing our next two kickouts. Serious teams don’t perform like that in big championship games. All those mistakes are on the players. No one else. Management had the selections, tactics and subs correctly used to put the team in those positions but it is up to the players to execute properly and do their job.
The game, and in truth, our season was over in those final 12 mins v Cork..
Two very good posts there com Seanie and Pebblesmeller ,we sort that out for next season
But Pebblesmeller it didn’t affect Dublins confidence when they kicked more wides than us in first half. They also dropped more shots shot into goalies hands in first half than us
It’s a sad state of affairs when we have to talk about beating blankets.. Fuck sake.. Surely the lawmakers will do something in the off season to improve the game as a spectacle. The mayo louth game was one of the worst of all time along with the Derry Cork one this year. The final was horseshit too
@kick it in agree with you there…I thought the final was sooo boring ha i honestly don’t know how some people are calling it one of the best finals ever and exciting though they are mostly from Dublin & kerry haha
All Ireland Final – i thought I was watching an Ulster Final!
Well said Pebblesmeller! The only logical post here over the last couple of weeks. Absolutely spot on!
When look at our average scoring rate compared to Dublin and Kerry what’s the difference? Particularly against likes of Louth and Cork.
As many issues as we have at the back scoring around 13pts or so on average won’t be good enough to get us over the line.
Kick out strategy is a management issue as well, players on pitch have a lot to answer for on those points pebbles, but not having kick out strategy and team versed on the scoring scenarios in that cork game is more management than players.
I don’t agree Gizmo. Management obviously do have a big part to play but the majority of the flack has to be with the players. We were getting our kickouts away all day in the Cork game, but when the pressure was on, the players lost their heads. We were 6 points up with 10 mins to go, not being able to close that out is down to the players that were on the field.
If we are able to break down blankets, we definitely are not able to do so like the top teams do. Our highest scoring game in championship this year was v kerry who you could not really say had a blanket out.
2023 Scores by team – Mayo:
0-10 v Roscommon
1-19 v Kerry
0-14 v Louth
1-11 v Cork
1-10 v Galway
0-11 v Dublin
Kerry Scores:
0-25 v Tipperary
5-14 v Clare
0-17 v Mayo
1-14 v Cork
5-24 v Louth
2-17 v Tyrone
1-17 v Derry
1-13 v Dublin
Dublin scores:
4-30 v Laois
0-14 v Kildare
5-21 v Louth
1-11 v Roscommon
0-22 v kildare
3-23 v Sligo
2-17 v Mayo
1-17 v Monaghan
1-15 v Kerry
@on the road again its down to management to have a back up plan when things don’t go well and to be able to train guys into how to close out games and to keep fitness levels up etc . .. oh and maybe not put a forward player into a number 6 position.
oh and not calling our young defenders babies and reflecting blame onto them after the loss to Dublin as others said to would be good .
I’m sure we will improve next year but the blame lies more on management here to be honest !
On the road, true enough but early doors how much pressure did Cork put on our kicks either? when they really pressed the kick we had no clear signs of a strategy to get away from it e.g.
– Zonal bunch
– Cluster and breaks etc.
– We also have multiple players contesting the same balls on occasion, leaving us outnumbered on ground for breaks. Galway game possibly has most examples of this.
We got most kicks away similarly in league when no pressure on kicks we had great success, think even v Dublin in first half we won 11/12 of our own kicks or some really high stat. But when teams went after us and pressed, things went downhill fast.
In fairness to management we would not have the strongest middle third fielder wise, but when that’s the case we should see some evidence of basic kick out tactics like above.
In last two weeks I have seen 6 of our current senior clubs play as well as some of our top intermediate team.
Do not think any new stand out midfielder jumping out from what have seen so far, so if we do not unearth a gem, we will need to have systems to eliminate the need for it.
Of course in Reape we have a man who can land the ball well into opposition half, so if going to lose a break can do worse than lose it as far away from our own sticks as possible and horse it straight down their throats, we got some nice scores that way the odd time tried it 🙂
Clare & Gizmo, How do we know that management didn’t have a plan but the players weren’t able to execute? You can hardly blame the management for Reape kicking a ball straight to a Cork man, or for Jack carney palming the ball down to a Cork man instead of catching it. I’m not saying management are free of blame but that last 10 minutes against Cork is on the players.
People are also reading way too much into the comments made after the Dublin game. Players know that what’s said in the media is a lot different to what’s said in the dressing room.
That could be true, and those two examples are clear individual error in fairness. But if you watch most games where a team struggles in midfield, club included you’d generally see the shape of what’s meant to be done e.g. cluster and break, single side loading etc. It just looked very hap hazard or with no discernible strategy or plan.
Even as say kill the clock in last few minutes if things going wrong, sub should have been sent in if an onfield player cannot be given message to lie down if needed to get things settled.
I’m sure message in dressing room is different alright, but still feel should not be deflecting blame onto young and inexperienced players on national media. It comes across poorly and I’m sure lads wouldn’t thank ya for it. You could say those thomgs to the players themselves in one to one and protect them from the media by taking the heat yourself.
I’ve done it in work scenarios yo protect reports from flack.
The main thing is the amount of teams with a genuine chance of winning remains very small, and we are one of them.
It won’t take a lot of change to get us to last 4 or further.
@on the ditch then it’s worse to make comments like the baby comments to media if it’s a different message in the dressing room and I’m sure if is. The guys are very young but as I said they aren’t babies they are young adults and I’m sure they didn’t appreciate it I wouldn’t have .
They should have had a back up plan for the last quarter against cork ever since cork got the penalty we had no plan ..
Anyway I think mcstay is a lovely guy and wax delighted he got the job and still think he is the man for it .
I do think we will bounce back next year
Pebblesmeller, I agree with this:
“The game, and in truth, our season was over in those final 12 mins v Cork…”
About the ‘babies’ comment from McStay, I didn’t understand it as the manager calling the young defender ‘babies’ in a derogatory sense. You could also use the word ‘fledgling’ as in a young bird flying alone for the first time. They were unseasoned, and novices. It was a big achievement to conduct themselves as well as they did.
I think Keith Higgins in 2006 was a baby defender too, similarly Andy in 2006. Both were seasoned warriors later.
I wonder if any of our falling flat this year at times can be put down to inexperience.
Watched the league final (first half) and Donegal match (second half) a few nights ago. Because I felt like it.
This was some of our best stuff all year, but watching back more critically, we were possession centric. We didn’t have that killer forward instinct, despite a good goal from Ryan v Donegal. Was this McHale’s influence? Dublin and indeed Kerry play that game, but you know they pounce at the slightest chance. We seemed happy to continually recycle and eventually hit for a score. Tommy Conroy really is the only one who brings the menace that causes fear in the opposition by running directly at goal and laying it off if necessary. We need more of this. More pacey players?
Some of it probably did to be fair swallow, but bulk of our inexperienced lads were among our better performers.
17 or 18 of panel had played in 1 or more all Ireland finals as well, so still a lot of experience involved.
Think Mayo averaged 13 scores a game over 6 championship games.
Kerry averaged 19.5 scores a game.
Dublin averaged 33.
If do the averages with just division 1 & 2 teams we should still be lagging well behind. And our front 6 and Midfield has a good bit of experience.
So defensive side of things not our only area of concern.
@catcol yes we do need more pacey players like Tommy c but they are hard to come by ha!
I think Tommy c will be hard stopping next year with more game time and 100% fit after his injury..
@swallow swoops that’s a good way of looking at the baby comments by management I guess.
@Gizmobobs agree think our younger players played the best over all this season .
Armagh and Tyrone appear happy to extend their managers stays,unlike some posters who feel a few months is long enough
@corick Tyrone actually won an all Ireland with those current managers .
People are entitled to say what went wrong during the year if you don’t outline what went wrong we will never win tha all Ireland.
As I always say I’m sure we will bounce back next year and I still think mcstay is the man for the job.
I have enjoyed watching Mayo for sixty years,perhaps sometimes things went wrong over the years,certainly nothing went wrong this year,we just were not good enough in the end,probably because of our sickness bug
@corick nothing went wrong this year ? Must be living in Cloud 9 haha but fair play to you for your optimism.
I still have the faith for sure as always but I do think a lot needs to be worked on !
I agree with the midfield comments. I think that was always the issue around AOS as, at his prime, he offered the option to change the game plan quickly and plug the midfield gap when needed – in any age or style a Willie Joe is a handy fella to have on a team!. So what do you do if you don’t have that option – well, you kick short of mid field or you kick beyond midfeld. Simple right? Wrong! you kick beyond and risk loosing the ball, kick short and exhaust your team running through the lines. So it comes back to precision kick passing – a bit like golf – most golfers will say its not the long game that gets you, its the short game. A poor driver of the ball can make up for that by good pitching and putting.
Your full of jokes Corick fair play to ya 🙂