The list of nominations for the 2021 football All-Stars have been announced. Tyrone, as expected, lead the way with 15 nominees while we have eight players shortlisted.
The eight Mayo players nominated are Rob Hennelly, Padraig O’Hora, Lee Keegan, Paddy Durcan, Stephen Coen, Mattie Ruane, Tommy Conroy and Ryan O’Donoghue. Lee is, along with Tyrone’s Conor Meyler and Ciaran McGeary (the likely winner), also shortlisted for Footballer of the Year, an award won by the Westport man previously in 2016.
Last year’s Young Footballer of the Year, Oisín Mullin, is also on this year’s shortlist for the same award, along with Galway’s Matthew Tierney and Tyrone’s Darragh Canavan.
In all, players from eleven counties are nominated for All-Stars this year. All-Ireland champions Tyrone deservedly top the list with 15, we have eight, Kerry have seven, Dublin have five, Monaghan have three, Armagh have two and there’s one each from Cork, Kildare, Donegal, Clare and Galway. The full list is here.
The winners of this year’s football All-Stars will be announced live on the night the awards are presented, which is on 10th December. The best of luck to all the Mayo lads nominated for an award this year.
Oisin, Mattie, Ryan and Lee for me …
Oisin young footballer.
Tough one to call on FOTY but Lee might just sneak it
Keegan, Ruane nailed on. Think only one of ROD or Conroy will get one with the way these things are divided out, of the two id just give ROD the nod, when i watched the final back again i actually think he had a really good showing penalty aside. think we wil get another defender too, with S Coen pipping paddy for me.
My team for what its worth…
Morgan (Tyr)
Tom O’Sullivan (Ker)
Lee Keegan (Mayo)
Padraig Hampsey (Tyr)
Niall Sludden (Tyr)
Stephen Coen (Mayo)
Peter Harte (Tyr)
Mattie Ruane (Mayo)
Conn Kilpatrick (Tyrone)
Conor Meyler (Tyr)
Rian O’Neill (Armagh)
Kieran McGeary (Tyr)
Darren McCurry (Tyr)
David Clifford (Kerry)
Ryan O’Donoghue (Mayo)
….McGeary FOTY for me, though im surprised Morgan didnt get nominated
Paudie Clifford is surely nailed on in fairness…
Dublin will get a token one also, Kilkenny the most likely – although maybe the ever under-rated Mick Fitz could sneak in (Howard nominated is hilarious though)
we’ve only 2 forwards nominated despite making final… says it all
Keegan and Ryan yes, possibly Ruane. Too many Tyrone backs there for Coen to get one.
Lee might get poty if Tyrone vote is split.
Whatever about the team that’s picked I always find the nominations to be a good indication of where we stand. Yes 4 good backs, 1 midfielder and 2 forwards. So that’s 4 forwards not good enough in the eyes of the judges. You’ll find most of the 4 played every game and 3 assured to back next year as we ‘go again’. Tyrone have 5 forwards nominated and one of them a sub all year! We’ll be be long time waiting for 5 forward nominations from Mayo and even longer waiting for a sub to be nominated. Mc Shane’s nomination is a clap on the back to the Tyrone management, even though it was a fairly straight forward plan regarding use of subs. Oh for a such a plan in Mayo.
Still, the review will sort all those issues. Oh lord.
I’m not sure what Lee Keegan will do with another All Star award. What does it mean to him anyway getting another one? Feic all i’d say.
The big Q&A review with management is on tonight I understand.
Is there going to be any transparency with the questions asked and answers received on this? Or will it be a token gesture with the real answers swept hidden under the carpet like so many other Irish reviews and investigations?
If you were all allowed JUST ONE question for the review what would it be?
Yeah have to agree with previous posters the fact that Mayo only have 2 forwards nominated once again says it all about where our shortcomings lie…and that is a trend too, on any of the years we have gotten to finals mayo have been well represented with defenders and midfielders but minimal return in forwards.
The entire half forward line in particular is in need of reconstruction imo, there should be nobody strolling onto that line based on profile or reputation, as far as im concerned numbers 10,11 and 12 should be very much up for grabs
The contribution from half forward line in final was so mediocre its actually a wonder we only lost to Tyrone by 4
Two forward NOMINATIONS says it all. One can’t argue with that and it tells a tale. Even if all-star nominations were announced after the Dublin game, who else could we legitimately argue should be picked? Scores just haven’t been coming from enough of the forwards. Cillian next year may make it three scoring forwards – if he’s back.
@just a thought my question for them would be why did we persist with a half forward line in the final that contained players who failed to score in the entire championship
@glorydays, and the answer would be, did we beat Dublin and Galway. Next question please.
We did beat Dublin and Galway bit both though fell apart in the second half , we didnt play a good game all year tbh , mad thing is could of won the all Ireland. The half forward line problem was touted on one of the mayo news podcasts during the league. I’m like a broken record here but I’m yet to hear good reason why james carr didnt play a bigger role this year , 72 mins on the clock when introduced in an all Ireland final beggars belief ,totally illogical when yiure chasing a game from 25 mins out by a substantial amount . If he started every game this year I’d put my life on it his scoring return would be up there with any of them .
Agree Sean on Carr and there’s more than him. We’ll have another year of this management. The review is a joke and a complete circus.
Unless the back room speak up as a group and state the issues but as Anthony Hennigan in the western pointed out, for various reasons that won’t happen. So a waste of time. On we go…
Well, surprised that Kevin McLoughlin didn’t get a nomination, more of a link man than an out and out scorer,.. but unlike others Kevin scored again in the All Ireland final and semifinal.. Stephen Coen very worthy of an All ?, .. As I understand it, the GPA vote on the PotY award, Tyrone players are likely to opt for one of their two nominees, it certainly could be Lee Keegan hopefully again, but like others here surprised that Niall Morgan hasn’t gotten nominated for the PotY award.. Shane Walsh of Galway has to be nailed on for an All Star, if you go on footballing, merits, pace, two footed, terrific free taker, excellent score taker and score maker for other’s, a shining light in a Galway team that underperformed on the whole .. but the All Stars selections seem to have blind spots, as Kevin McLoughlin I’m sure knows but I will be surprised if he actually does get one, .. On merits I suggest that Matty Ruane and Bryan Fenton (still) are the two best midfielders in the country at the moment, but I expect Fenton will miss out, the bar for Fenton has been so amazing high that 2021will look like an underperformance.. Oísin Mullen is very unfortunate to miss out on a nomination, for an All Star, him picking up an injury in training before the All Ireland Semifinal was more than unfortunate, but he’s not a full back, half back or midfield more like it. .. Hope Lee and Oísin pick up the PotY and YPotY award’s they are nominated for…
As regards the review, we will not hear a word of it. I’d imagine clubs questions will be vetted and we’ll never hear the answers anyway. To be honest, I’d have as many questions for the county board as I would have for Horan.
For the county board.
1. What was the thinking behind having the media evening so far our from the final?
2. Why was there only 1 player available for the media evening?
3. What exactly was the county boards total allocation of final tickets, and what was the breakdown of that allocation to sponsors, clubs, officials, former players, corporate and finally, season ticket holders?
4. What was the point of, yet another, new fan designed jersey in the run up to the final?
5. Why did it appear to many of us in Croke Park that there was a very large and quiet contingent of Mayo “supporters” who looked like it was their first game ever. And, how come many of those “supporters” had just flown in from the UK and US?
6. Why was James Horan allowed carry a panel of 41 players?
7. Why weren’t the players who were not seeing game time in that 41 man panel, released back to their clubs so they could play league?
8. Why was the club league competition shelved, just to placate the county manager?
9. How come Tyrone and Kerry could continue their club league competitions during the inter county league, but we couldn’t in Mayo?
10. What extra cost is involved in carrying a 41 man panel and is it sustainable?
11. What sanction or discipline will be placed on the county secretary for his comments where he seemed to apportion some blame on the Mayo supporters for the non-performance of the team in the final?
For the manager.
1. What plan was in place for when Tyrone would introduce Canavan and McShane?
2. Why wasn’t our totally blunt and ineffective half forward line changed through out the championship?
3. Why was a total novice, Orme, introduced with 3 mins left when the game was already gone?
4. Why was Carr introduced with 3 mins of added time up, when the player had been in hospital in the run in to the final?
5. Why were other keepers not seriously looked at?
I wouldn’t hold my breath though.
Sean, it didn’t help James Carr’s cause dumping two poor wides in the semi final. Players should rightly be judged on how they perform on game day. That said, he is a talent, but needs a bit more time. I think though that if he got some of those missed goal chances he’d have netted at least one. Wasn’t he injured in run up to final? Hospitalised I thought.
I’m not sure tbh , I was told the week before the final he had a little bit of fluid removed from the knee and that it wouldnt hamper his prep .
Regarding O’Hora, you could see from the Ballina v Claremorris match last week why he is far more suited marking a big strong, less mobile forward like Diskin rather than a McCurry. He kept Diskin relatively quiet with little fuss, bar a few great bursts by the Claremorris man in the final quarter when the match was long over (at which point I think O’Hora and Sean Regan between them tagged him).
It’s all easy in hindsight I know, but let’s not let it happen again. O’Hora is in super form though, just needs to be matched up correctly. He’s a starting 15 player for Mayo all day long. He can be a gamechanger for us. But knowing our tactical failings, it wouldn’t surprise me to see him marking a McCurry-type player once again. Sorry for the pessimism.
[Deleted].
Mayo Fan in Chicago – that information is not in the public domain and one of the rules for posting comments here is that hot inside stories of this kind (regardless of their veracity) cannot be made public here. If whomever you spoke with wishes to make this information public then they’re free to do so but I can’t allow you to do this here on their behalf (which you may be doing with or without the knowledge or approval of the person you claim to have spoken with).
As you’ve only recently starting posting comments here you need to read the rules about what’s okay and what’s not when doing so. You’ll find them here.
At the top level belief always trumps tactics, though the latter is of course important. NO intercounty player should be found wanting in terms of basic skills, ie passing, shooting etc, on final day. You can have the best tactics the the world but if belief isn’t there you’ll be that half-yard off. But, if belief is there, the team with the better players overall will win, ie passes are more fluid, shots that they’re well capable of taking sail over the bar and into the net. You overwhelm the opposition, you deflate them. That’s what usually happens when belief is there, coupled with having the stronger squad overall.
[Deleted].
@Liberal role in the tie, It’s a bit like the dart player being able to hit the bulls eye on a regular basis when he’s in the comfort of his own home but not being able to replicate that when it matters most and the pressure is on, some can do it and some can not.
I think any team playing Mayo in a final at this stage already have an injection of belief before the game starts because of Mayo’s record in finals.
If it was Cavan who were in Mayo’s position and Mayo got to a final wouldn’t we have belief as well if we were playing them and we’d likely beat them as well.
It wouldn’t be too hard to get into their heads with talk of curses and so on with every mistake that was made, so when talking about final performances Mayo’s situation is unique and needs a unique solution.
If we played a final against Donegal, Armagh, Monaghan, Dublin, Kerry, Meath, Galway or even Derry or Cork a few weeks ago there is no guarantee that we would have beaten any of them because they would all have had the belief that they could beat us in a final.
And if we were given the choice at the beginning of the year of who we would have preferred to play in a final, Dublin, Kerry or Tyrone, we’d all have picked Tyrone.
So the hurdle that Mayo must jump to win a final will always be higher than what any other team will ever need to jump and that’s why I believe that we must do more than any other team preparation wise to try and compensate for that.
Going back to the All Star nominations, if lee keegan gets another this year, it will be his fifth. No other Mayo footballer has 5. An incredible achievement if he is successful.
Mayo Fan in Chicago – thanks but I’m afraid that, with your follow-up comment, it has happened again. On the four points you’ve raised:
1. Names someone in a context where, to my knowledge, no names have yet been made public;
2. Casts (at least implicitly) aspersions on an easily identifiable player;
3. No issue;
4. Again, this fact (if it is a fact) hasn’t been made public.
You’re really going to have to give the house rules a careful read at this stage and I’ve now no option as well but to route all comments from you via moderation.
I feel nominations are fair.
But think Conroy deserved young player nod a lot more than Mullen.
Also, I think what happens between manager and county board should be private, as much as people won’t like it, it needs to be kept confidential.
willie joe. Please let me try again please? if i am off the mark here please tell me and i will no longer post
Questions that should be added to management review as per @pebblesmeller earlier message
1) what was noel howley’s role in the management team and how did he contribute?
2) what are the standards and behaviours expected of all our players , especially the older players and captain
3) what is social media policy for all players for during the player season and does it need to be amended?
4) were the team’s final preparations appropriate and up to the required standard for a final – a game everyone said was a greatest chance since 1989. travel, accomodation, medical. did the team have the best?
5) what is the status of selectors for 2022? this is key to answer clearly to kill all the rumours
True Viper, and anyone who thinks otherwise or ignores that is only fooling themselves.
Mayo Fan in Chicago – that’s fine, no issue with anything in this version. Thanks for taking the time to amend the comment.
@Pebblesmeller, good luck with your questions to the County Board and Manager.. I think re questions to the County Board, I wonder which member of the board would be responsible for answering the various questions.. I have a few questions myself, (a few take no prisoners questions) but I would have to think about how I would write them so as not to run foul if the very nessary rules on this Blog .. But this is an easy one for our Manager, why standing on the sideline in Croke Park, does James Horan not be hooked up with an earpiece with, with one or more giving information from a knowledgeable eye in the sky, ie upper tier of the Hogan, Canal or Cusack Stand?.. Standing in front of the Subs bench is one the worst views available for any manager… High in the Canal End gives a different perspective altogether and you might find out where there is space to exploited if you had a little birdie in your ear.. Anyhow I think we have as good a chance of getting answers, as we have of finding out how do Jacobs get the figs into the figrolls!
@mayfaninchicago hope all is good in the windy city. All I know about Noel Howley is he has a haulage company and is a very decent man by all accounts and has done a lot for the Dublin based players. I do know however that Noel Howley didn’t miss an open goal in the final he didn’t miss a penalty (not blaming ROD even millionaire professional footballers miss penalties) and he wasn’t responsible for us conceding two goals.
All good in the Windy City Glorydays. Mayo people not happy here either. Asking questions but not expecting answers. I am originally only a few miles away from Noel’s original home village. Don’t know him personally but a decent guy by all accounts. However I really don’t know how someone like Noel can add value to a high performance sporting team or am I missing something. What qualifications has he to operate in such an environment? I am not accusing him of any wrongdoing. I am just very interested in finding out what is involved in the role of ‘Player Welfare’ and how this improves team performance. It sounds like a role a Sports Psychologist would fulfill rather than an owner of a Haulage Business.
How many of current panel are based in Dublin these days during the pandemic?
Very valid questions Mayo man in Chicago and ones I cannot anwser. What I do know is management hasn’t learned anything from the past All Ireland final and realistically I don’t expect them to learn anything by next year at this stage either. I think Mayo might benefit from a new broom in 2023 we won’t get one in 2022. My question is what has happened to Diarmuid there’s definitely more football and scores in him and I lay his non performance at the door of the manager and and our forwards coach I think we should be asking questions off them
Will be interesting to see how the season ticket will be priced next year with the potential new championship format
Some tactical mistakes were made on the sideline but players must and I think they will take responsibly. In the heat of battle the manager can not control everything and a player needs to make an intelligent pass not a short pass into a high traffic zone and we saw too many of these. Players need to be able to take good opportunities and deliver scores and generally make good decisions. To win an all Ireland you need players who adapt to circumstance make the right decisions, move into the right spaces, see danger developing capitalize on opportunities. Tyrone had more than we had and made both us and Kerry look bad by stifling what we did well and taking their goal chances in both games .We had opportunities but squandered too many and if somebody makes a bad pass, misses a shot or is out of position on defense the sideline can not control these situations. Players are not programmed robots.
The most frustrating aspect for me was the fact that we were getting into great positions frequently, and looked more than able to open Tyrone up. But hesitation, indecision, silly mistakes, and poor shooting let us down at vital moments.
I think we will struggle again to pick up All stars. Lee stephen definitely for me. Mattie a d Ryan possibly. Would agree Tommy unlucky not to get nominated for ypoy. Mcgeary and Canavan to win poy awards.
Young player of the year i think is for players under 21 years of age. Tommy conroy is just outside that age category so is ineligible, i think.
I would have thought that we would have moved on a bit from the disappointment of the AI by now. If anything, the sense of frustration and annoyance has increased. My worry now is whether this might carry over to the players and management to such an extent that real long-term harm could be done. If I was a player or a member of the management team I would begin to wonder if it was worth it at all.
I think James Horan could do worse than give an interview to one of the local papers and try to address some of the issues that are causing concern. A vacuum has a habit of filling itself, sometimes with stuff that is toxic. And I have a bad feeling that this is beginning to go that way.
My question would be linked to the distribution of all Ireland final tickets and the recent legislation of ticket touting been made illegal , if the Mayo cb can sell tickets at face value but with a demand of a fixed donation on top why cant a common tout do the same without fear of prosecution, is it a loophole in the law or have Mayo GAA broken the law ?
I was personally embarrassed to admit I didnt attend the game as I never miss so I just let on to people I know I was in attendance but in reality I couldnt get my hands on a ticket , dont think I was ever as disappointed in my life. This is the first time I’ve told the truth , truly was embarrassed to say I couldnt get my hands on one .Even though it didnt turn out I missed anything I never experienced before sadly ,i’m still bitter over it when I seen some of the clowns heading up . Hence my bitter query above.
Rober – that’s correct. Tommy is U22 this year and for young POTY you need to be U21 or younger. Enda Hession would be the only other possibility for us.
There is no doubt about it. The gloom and frustration has hung around after this one.
Added to that, we are heading again in to a format that we don’t rightly know what way the championship might be played out next year.
It would probably do no harm at all to have a clear the air or some type of communication or feedback from
1) The manager.
2) The county board.
The manager might be able to give his views on what he reckons went wrong. Maybe clarify what he thinks didn’t work and what he is planning to do to ensure a better performance the next time.
The county board might be able to give an account on their reasoning for the way the tickets were allocated. Even if they were to come out and hold up a balance sheet and say that they had to go big after the corporate sector due to financial constraints, even that might help a bit. I think alot of the frustration is because there hasn’t been a peep out of the county board about the loyal fans who were left stranded without tickets.
It hasn’t helped that the same county board went public and were quick about it, giving out about some of the fans and their reactions after the game.
One member mentioned several examples, one been that Jim Gavin had been mentioned as a replacement for our own manager.
Are we going to be chastised again for daring to suggest that Andy might make a good mayo manager.
Nobody has a right to make disgraceful comments and nobody deserves to receive them either, but the silence doesn’t help. People do deserve to know, even the generalities of the cause of the flat performance, and a recognition that some action is been taken to address the performance and improve things.
The distribution of the tickets, I feel also needs to be clearly explained.
If we even got that, it might in some way help for the healing to begin because it’s evident it sure as hell hasn’t started yet.
Anyone know why do Mayo not have an Analysis Team as part of the backroom ?
I know Dublin have a four man team doing it, John Courtney, Ciaran Toner, Frankie Roebuck and Stephen Behan plus Chris Farrell is their cameraman.
I cant find any mention of an Analysis Team on the Mayo backroom which is really odd.
Marty McGirr heads up Tyrone’s Analysis Team.
So my question would be based around analysis because if we do not have a dedicated analysis team then it brings me right back to where I started here regarding “unturned stones” and the need for a link man between the county board and management who knows what’s required when it comes to sending a team to Croke Park with every possible angle covered regarding preparation.
I’ll probably just pack it all in if I hear we do not have an Analysis Team and come to the conclusion that after a decade on the road we are still arriving at Croke Park unprepared.
Because make no mistake, if we do not have an Analysis Team, that means there was a lack of preparation which would be a very serious scenario for both the County Board and the team management.
Of course I hope I’m wrong and someone can tell me who our Analysis Team are ?
Ger Cafferkey is part of the backroom team as a “Value and Behaviours Coach” by the way.
Mcgeary will get player of the year. Lee shortlisted again tell s anyone what talent he still is. . Best mayo player since 51 . Hope he see s the celtic ??
@Viper,.. You get plenty of Analysis on this Blog, unfortunately or fortunately we are not all on the same Hyme Sheet, most of the time, except when it comes to we all think Lee Keegan is absolutely fantastic.., However some of the Analysis is very good,, especially from outside Mayo . I can give you a way of measuring just how objective some posters or contributers are by just looking back at how accurate they predicted certain games going a few days before the game was played and their reasoning for such a prediction, which you can do with the archives.. We are all wiser after the event,, and even then we might not all agree with each other’s the reasoning why the outcome was such as it was…. An Analysis team, would analyse the Management and the team performance, from team selection, substitutions and the timing of substitutions, training methods,.. I would imagine.. But a difficult question to answer is, How do you ensure objectivity? .. I remember a few years ago, the Government decided to grade all it’s own Minister’s and their performance themselves, and surprise, surprise they all scored very well as graded by themselves… Would, the current Manager and back room team, buy into this idea themselves being analysed by someone else?… In theory it’s a great idea.. I’d love to hear more about how it might work in reality…. And who’s going tell James Horan?
.
There are three certainties in life.
Death.
Taxes.
GAA fans from all counties complaining that 22 and 23 year old players have not been nominated for young player of the year.
It’s an u21 award, it has been for years now. If you are 22 you are NOT ELIGIBLE!!
2 or 3 Tyrone players are in the running for footballers of the championship, no others in this group.
@Leantimes, what I mean by an Analysis Team is I’d like to know who carries out a detailed analysis of the opposition to assist the manager in formulating a game plan.
Analysts have access to many more camera angles than the watching public do including the roof top cameras at Croke Park, IP cameras and GoPro Clones.
This analysis is broken into a number of key components like, opposition kick out strategy, turnovers, shot success and failure, transition time and is also key on deciding on match ups as well as being coded to allow players individually analyze the man he is assigned to mark.
So I’m curious as to whether we have an Analysis Team like other top counties do and if so what was learned from analyzing Tyrone, was the analysis inadequate, thought to be of no benefit, ignored, or not carried out at all.
Did the analysis not flag up a potential O’Hora / McCurry mismatch for example and if it didn’t was the analysis not inadequate then and if it did why was it not acted upon pre match.
I think it’s important to ask the right questions and not turn a review into an interrogation or ask questions where the answers could be totally subjective.
@Revellino, you will never get any answers to those questions you have asked.
If you want my version of what went wrong for the final, here it is.
Mayo overcelebrated following the victory over the Dubs.
One or two players looked injured on All Ireland final day, one being the best player.
Tyrone had superior fitness to Mayo.
Tyrone played clever long ball into the Mayo fullback line.
Our best midfielder all year didn’t show up in the final.
Two or three players had an off championship with one of those not putting in a single tackle in many of the big games.
Tyrone fullback line came up the pitch and got a few scores.
Most of all Mayo fluffed 3 goal chances.
Tyrone got 3 goal chances and took 2.
Mayo have not scored 2 or more goals in a final since 2006.
Tyrone used the full advantage of their goalkeeper, the old fashioned long quick ball right into the Mayo defence.
Mayo looked stale and nervous at times in the final, this was plain to see in both 1st halves of Galway and Dublin matches.
Sin e an sceal.
Hi everyone. I’d love to have some wise questions or words to offer. This loss hurt me, as I expect it has hurt every player, manager, coach and supporter of Mayo GAA.
I am now beginning to see myself as I imagine so many of my non Mayo friends have seen me for years. Naïve and innocent, believing that we are good enough to beat anyone. I now realise we have a mental weakness and we don’t like it. We don’t want to admit it and if that’s the case we’re not going to work out how to overcome it. I am despondent. I don’t have much hope for the future. I know I am negative but I’m trying to be realistic.
I’ll treat any victory with a shrug of my shoulders because I know it will be the same when the big one comes for decision. Mayo are a great, passionate and entertaining team but utterly unreliable.
James Horan has been terrific for Mayo football but his inability to learn is his achilles…
That’s me. Please forgive me if this is depressed. It’s how it feels just now.
MO-Direach, I said it here before that this final is the worst loss ever and I still maintain that because we all believed that the days of us turning up at Croke Park for a final and not putting in a performance were over.
I still believe that we are not arriving at Croke Park as prepared as we can be in every way because too many people do not realize that preparation wise Mayo must go to the depths of hell to give themselves a better chance of winning a final.
We can have good people like Liam Moffatt and James Horan who want success as much as all of us do but the reality is that there is nobody in charge of the project, Liam Moffatt has a very wide ranging role, James Horan has a specific role in managing the team and all that goes with that but who is responsible for ensuring that a comprehensive list of do’s and don’ts are followed to the ninth degree.
I’m sure James Horan prepares his team to the highest standard he can based on what the “norms” would be but we are forgetting that Mayo are not a “normal” team when it comes to trying to get them over the line in an All-Ireland final so our list of do’s and don’ts would be considerably different.
What I am talking about has absolutely nothing to do with telling a manager what to do but it will require manager, County Board and player buy as there will be some extra and unorthodox personal sacrifices to be made by the players for the couple of weeks leading up to a final. It will also require additional funding.
So don’t despair MO-Direach, in the long run getting beaten by Tyrone may be the best thing that ever happened us because it will force change upon us and issues would not have been exposed or as forensically looked at had we been beaten by Dublin in the semi or perhaps had it been Kerry who had beaten us in the final.
I’m not into the blame game myself, I’m more into try to improve our chances in a specific and logical way.
If you come on a car crash, you try and help first, not blame the car or the driver and walk away.
`Pebblesmeller
1. What was the thinking behind having the media evening so far our from the final?
Answer: Get it over with and concentrate on the upcoming match. Plenty of complaints in the past when it was held too near the final
2. Why was there only 1 player available for the media evening?
Answer Same as question 1.
3. What exactly was the county boards total allocation of final tickets, and what was the breakdown of that allocation to sponsors, clubs, officials, former players, corporate and finally, season ticket holders?
Answer: Mayo fans had 65% of the tickets on the day roughly 25000 Mayo fans. Less than 8000 Mayo fans attended the Connaught Final and it did not sell out so there were plenty of unsold tickets. Mayo fans who attended every Match and a few of them did not get one this time but there was only 40k allowed
4. What was the point of, yet another, new fan designed jersey in the run up to the final?
Maybe part of the deal with the sponsors
5. Why did it appear to many of us in Croke Park that there was a very large and quiet contingent of Mayo “supporters” who looked like it was their first game ever. And, how come many of those “supporters” had just flown in from the UK and US? .
Answer: Happens all the time . The people flying in were just as entitled to attend as the people living in Ireland who did not attend the Connaught Final. Mayo fans were quiet because deep down we were very nervous and the team never got going. Had Ryans shot hit the net then the crowd and team lift
6. Why was James Horan allowed carry a panel of 41 players?.
Answer: Injuries , Develop new players . This is the first time I have heard anyone complain about too many players on the panel.
7. Why weren’t the players who were not seeing game time in that 41 man panel, released back to their clubs so they could play league?
Answer : Some were . Doherty played and picked up a injury . Harrison I believe played . Potential injuries and as result not having cover
8. Why was the club league competition shelved, just to placate the county manager?
Answer. Covid had a lot to do with it
9. How come Tyrone and Kerry could continue their club league competitions during the inter county league, but we couldn’t in Mayo?.
Answer . Tyrone had major Covid problems. Kerry fans were not happy with their Teams fitness. Players cramping
10. What extra cost is involved in carrying a 41 man panel and is it sustainable?
Answer. I hope it is sustainable as we need Horan to try and unearth new talent .
11. What sanction or discipline will be placed on the county secretary for his comments where he seemed to apportion some blame on the Mayo supporters for the non-performance of the team in the final?
Answer : If we keep on attacking the County Board more than Mofatt will be walking away
For the manager.
1. What plan was in place for when Tyrone would introduce Canavan and McShane?
Answer: Mullen for McShane.
2. Why wasn’t our totally blunt and ineffective half forward line changed through out the championship?
Answer . This is not soccer where you can go out and buy players
3. Why was a total novice, Orme, introduced with 3 mins left when the game was already gone?
Answer Game Time
4. Why was Carr introduced with 3 mins of added time up, when the player had been in hospital in the run in to the final?
Answer Hope he would snatch a goal
5. Why were other keepers not seriously looked at?
Answer. At the moment and I do attend as many Club games as I can there is no great supply of reliable keepers in the County . Dublin have had only three or four Keepers in the last 40 years
I wouldn’t hold my breath though.
O’Sullivan,
Good answers. Perhaps we should have switched Keegan with Diarmuid ó Connor for the last 10 minutes and perhaps Boyle on to lift the team
Mayo 88. Totally agree. Just to add to that. Entire half forward line as well as midfield didn’t turn up.
According to the programme for the 2020 final the Mayo backroom team was a s follows:
Manager: JH
Coach/Selector: Ciaran Mac; James Burke
GK Coach: Tom Higgins
Selector: Martin Lally
S&C: Conor Finn
Stats: Jack Murray
Team Doctor: Sean Moffatt
Physios: Darren Flannery; Mark Gallagher; Brendan Butler
Kit: Liam Ludden
Logistics: Joe Doyle
Stats: Evan Gannon
Nutritionist: Evan Regan
Performance Coach: Martin MacIntyre ( MM stepped away in 2021. Replacement JH??)
Values and Behaviours Coach: Ger Cafferkey
Player Welfare: Noel Howley
Thats a total of 18. Dublin’s is 30
Viper is correct in listing those four as the analysis team for Dublin, and naming Chris Farrell as cameraman.
Thats a good piece o sullivan. Pretty accurate I’d say. I have to say I couldn’t believe we put o hora on mc curry. He’s far too fast and cute for o hora. The most improved player of the championship. Mickey couldn’t get that kind of football out of him.
18 on a Backroom team.. that’s allot. Just wondering what a values and Behaviors coach does?.. would a Values and Behaviors coach, have anything to say about the interaction of the Mayo management team as was evident in the sideline in the biggest game of all the All Ireland final, or is just the Values and Behavior of the player’s, including our Captain?… In my opinion leadership has to come from the top down, including the Manager and Captain..And who picks all those Backroom team?
In my opinion, Oísen Mullen (probably the most talented player I have ever seen for Mayo) was not a suitable tight man marker to pick up McShane, much more suited to the halfback line or further up the field.. The evidence was there from the 2020 All Ireland final, when Oísen completely lost Con O Callaghan for Dublin’s seccond goal, another made to look simple fisted effort, the type of Goal, Mayo seems to be vunerable to in All Ireland finals far too often.. I would suggest that it was very predictable that McShane would play on the 14 meter line and the timing of his appearance. A bigger man, with the precise instructions on how to play McShane would be a better match up.. Aiden O Shea could have been brought back from the forward line, after all he done a fine job on Kieran Donaghy a few years ago, and it wasn’t really working out for Aiden in the forwards particularly in the second half.. other alternatives were Jordan Flynn, who was probably expected to be introduced as a sub around the same time as McShane.. Aiden would have been my preference because he had done a similar job as that very well before, we weren’t losing anything from our forward line in bringing Aiden back the way the game was going, but we were loosing from our go forward momentum by restricting Mullen to the full back line, where’s despite his amazing talents is just cut out for that position!
Here are a few ideas of mine.
Have the Mayo team been training too hard ( too much running) in the week leading up to the three big games this year, Galway, Dublin and Tyrone, those could explain the poor 1st half showings.
Do Selectors really have any input into the selection of a team or the subs to come in ?
Past time now to forget about 2021.
One thing I picked up on was the players saying everything is great when they win and they are the villains when they lose.
But the fact is the final always end in a defeat.
Most of the questions for the management are fair game. But I think it fair that management ask where were the fans when they were needed most. The silence was deafening at stages, and not for the first time in a final.
Leantimes – you don’t seriously think Aidan O’Shea should have been marking McShane? That would have ended in tears as would Jordan Flynn. Mullin isn’t the most sticky of man markers, but he’s extremely pacy and athletic. Dealing with high balls is one of his biggest strengths. He lost McShane for a split second but even still I would say Hennelly was most at fault. The only one who might have done better on McShane was Stephen Coen.
Mayo88 – I don’t know how much input selectors have, but Loftus only nailed down a starting position when McDonald joined! Flynn has been persisted with too.
The same bullshit answers year after year, mayo are doomed i dont care if they had 50 working in the boiler room. The only way to get rid of bullshit , get rid of the bull
the answer to the mayo problem , here is a question going back to 2012 do backroom staff stop goals going into the Mayo net , there is only thing that will stop goals is proper backs, Mayo should have won 13, 15 and 16 and the easy one , thats 4 that were there for the taking , in 2017 dublin scored more points than Mayo, who gave away a stupid goal in the first minutes. we had a man who could set up the backline , but we let him go, in 2016 v Tyrone no goals, in the final Dublin could not score .Was it the backroom team that changed a winning team, is there a answer to that one, what did they expect to achieve ,hold Dublin to 8 points, what about 41 players , a man that knows his stuff dont need 41 players , what he needs is a good scout or 2 and pick the best of the best ,what do the 10 or 11 players do while the rest are going head to A v B , there wont be any answers to this one ,because you cannot get in to Fort Knox, what about the GAA loaning out players to Leitrim , 3 players need game time a 6 a 7 and a2 those three are top of the range they are all backs, one of them you wouldnt catch with a hound, just a thought. the answer re Orme is a good one game time a jer se
thats the best one yet this year ..slan
@Wideball.. Well, it did end up in tears, didn’t it?.. Absolutely serious particularly about Aiden O Shea picking up McShane, wheater that be by Aiden coming on when McShane came on or by bringing back an otherwise ineffictive AOS back in McShane in the second half. I have no doubt that Stephen Coen could have done a fantastic job, but that would be robbing Peter to pay Paul concidering Stephen Coen was doing a fine job where he was and a scoring threat and provider of scores helping out in our attack… Mullen did get caught the wrong side of McShane, but a few times before that happened, Mullen was gambling to a certain extent on winning any ball played in font of McShane,.. It was a fantastic diagonal kicked pass to McShane, for the obsiously planned excellent fisted Goal, but I would say, Hennelly was at fault for beginning to come and changing his mind, should have stayed on his line, Mullen was to blame for being caught wrong side of his man, and management was equally to blame for deciding on the completely wrong matchup!
Look, there are a number of players on the team that struggle when push comes to shove unfortunately. They wouldn’t be my choice, but they are McDonald’s and Horan’s. No complaints there, as that’s their prerogative. There are 2 questions that Horan needs to answer. 1. What is your defensive strategy if you have one? 2. What is your attacking strategy if you have one? After years in charge, over 2 stints, I can see no discernable strategy at all. Tommy Conroy in the backs for large periods, Aidan O’Shea at the corner flag at times when Mayo are attacking. Lee Keegan stuck in corner back for the most part, when he plays miles better on the half back line. Loftus in midfield even though he’s not able to compete for basic things like throw-ins. Mullen moved to full back on McShane when all evidence from previous games shows that it doesn’t suit him at all. Diarmuid O’Connor played everywhere bar where he is needed in the forwards. Anyone that think things will change next season are deluding themselves.
Oisin marking McShane and O’Callaghan ended in tears also. He didn’t lay a glove on either of them for their goals, both of which were the killer goals.
Boyle marking Con O’Callaghan in 2017 ended in tears, as did Keegan 2019 and Mullin 2020. You can write a book on all the forwards that have killed us down the years.
Leantimes – if Mullin couldn’t keep with McShane how would you expect O’Shea to for the last 30 minutes of the game? O’Shea was in the full back line against Clare in the league when their big full forward caused 2 goals. He isn’t anywhere near quick or agile enough to play that position.
@Wideball, Oísen Mullen could of course keep with McShane, .. it’s his natural attacking instinct, which on the whole is a very good thing,.. but you can’t leave an attacker as lethal as McShane goal side of you.. I presume that Aiden would mark from behind like he did v Donaghy.. because he definitely couldn’t mark from the front..McShane while very effective is not that awful fast. .I think if you review the early Con O Callaghan Goal in 2017, Con gets past Colm Boyle in a pre-planned move to score, it’s what happens just a minute before that move that needs rewatching.. John Small gives Colm Boyle a knee into the head, Boyler is clearly still shook, otherwise that Goal dosent happen.. Deleberate, cynical but for my money pre-planned, we can’t accuse Tyrone of any such cynisism.. Dublin and cynicism go hand in hand if any team gets near enough to possibly beat them, as we seen 8 week’s ago.. The same thing happened in the 2011 All Ireland final, Diarmuid O Sullivan is lined up for a serious hit into the chest by his holiness Fr Ger Brennan, the very next move is Kevin McManamum easily going by Diarmuid O Sullivan for the goal the send Dublin on the way to their first All Ireland since 1995.
Declan O Sullivan I should have said.
I wouldn’t be too hard on Oisin Mullin for the Mc Shane goal. Yes he took a slight gamble on defending front the front,but what was he supposed to do? Not sure if the cameras picked it up but from my vantage point right behind the goal, just as that ball was about to be delivered Mc Shane darted 3 metres to the left,Oisin followed, 3 to the right, Oisin followed, left and right again with Oisin trying to follow the trajectory of the ball and seek peeks over his shoulder to keep tabs on Mc Shane. He would surely have been getting instructions from his keeper throughout this time (you’d imagine). So keeper behind, defender in front. Mc Shane should have been spammed. Why wasn’t he???
O hora may have been better on mcshane. Physical battle. Wide ball I have to agree with the two players u mentioned been persisted with to no avail
Listened to the Mayo news podcast review of last weekend’s club matches. Excellent as always from Mike, Ed and Ger.
Mike rightly puts it out there that Evan Regan could get a call-back to the panel next year if he continues this form. I absolutely agree. Why the heck not, especially with our blunt half forward line. Also, an option for frees from the right.
I’m not sure if the odds from Paddy Power for Enda Kenny as the next chairman of Mayo CB are a piss-take or not, but I think this could actually work, for the following reasons:
1. He loves Mayo Gaa
2. He knows politics inside out 🙂
3. Whenever you think about his politics no one can argue that he’s an amiable guy with a positive outlook
4. Experience of bringing people with opposing opinions together to achieve a common purpose, regardless of one’s political views.
5. He would be the perfect figurehead
Does anyone know how Eoghan McLaughlin is doing after his injury in the semi
Evan is a great club man and is doing well for Ballina he had a lot of injuries and I think he retired from inter county football because of said injuries. I don’t think he’s the anwser to our scoring problems as he never scored heavily for Mayo a point here the odd goal here man of the match against London and New York but he’s a good lad and always gave 100% . Realistically we need someone who can shoot the lights out and do it on the big days when the pressure is on. The only one that fits that description is Cillian I can’t think of anyone else
@Liberal role in the tie, Enda would be far too nice, it’s a tyrant who loves Mayo GAA we want.
What about Jimmy Sloyan, he knows the politics of Mayo football inside out apparently. :-).
@Viper… Jimmy Sloyan is not a Tyrant.. he knows more about football than Mr Google himself…. Party Politics and Politicans on the whole have not been good for Mayo GAA ,it’s a practice that I would like to see the end of… I remember on a rotten wet day Mayo v Galway 2016 there was a mixup with Connacht GAA,as regards ticketing, all season ticket holder were entitled to sit in the Stand, first come first served, an elderly lady who had been in the stand for hours in Castlebar, at the suggestion of a Stewart left her seat to facilitate a TD (he didn’t want to do it, because I know him personally but he was instructed to do it from on high) and of course the public address telling people.. I told the Stewart and everyone sitting near me that if the Politicans wanted a seat they should be there on time.. The poor woman, who I know as well got drowned wet at the Bacon Factory End.. The particular TD, didn’t think twice about taking the poor woman’s seat and I’m sure he overhead what a few in the seats nearby were saying.. His brass neck neither turned right or left as he looked out on the pitch him after having arrived 5 minutes before throw in!
Fine Gael always ran Mayo GAA, nothing against Enda steeped In MAYO football
They might have to change the words of ” the banks of my own lovely Lee ” , seeing as they closed most of them last week.
Sure we nearly need a middle Eastern buy out now like what happened in Newcastle United, to clear the debt on McHale Park. The stewards would have to ask that older lady to vacate her seat in the stand to make way for his Royal Highness Sheikh Hamden Al O’Toole.
Enda would clear the debt in roughly 26 minutes. He’d introduce a flute tax. No entry to games unless the flute tax was paid.
He’d have Eamon Coughlan on board as the water boy. Coughlan would have the water out to them before they got thirsty at all. He could have waterboys singing to the team at half time about the whole of the moon, especially seeing as there is nothing else to talk about (like tactics).
Mary Lou could be the new tackling coach as well.
Sure maybe Michael O’Leary might come on board with some pilot scheme. He could do the before match talk to tell our lads about the Lilly livered Dublin full back line.
The only suggestion that hasn’t come up is that maybe we should be concentrating on hurling more. Sure there’s only about six counties playing in that competition. We’d have about ten Liam Mcarthys won since 51 if we concentrated on hurling.
I did a fair bit of hurling myself, but it’s years ago. It was usually after a bad pint of Guinness. The bad pint was always about the 13th or 14th pint. Off to the toilet, and I’d hurl for Ireland until the stomach felt a bit better. I often saw plenty of other lads hurling as well. Isn’t there hurling going on in every corner of the county. We have as many hurlers as any county.
Great answers O Sullivan. Amazing how nobody was asking questions after we beat Dublin but since the AI Final, for lots of people, the Co Board, the management and the players all have questions to answer. I think things are more easily explained. Games V Sligo and Leitrim were irrelevant. We were poor in first half v Galway. We were poor for 55 minutes v Dublin in decline. Tyrone were quite good and had to be good to get out of Ulster and then beat Kerry in semi.We were without our most influential and best forward for the year. Yet there was this almost universal feeling in Mayo that we would win. Based on what. Because we weren’t playing Dublin or Kerry in the final. Anyone who expected Tyrone of all teams to be easy opposition hasn’t a clue. This Mayo team is not in the same bracket as 2013, 2016, 2017. It was quite an achievement to get them to a final. JH was getting great credit for managing our transition so well but now in the eyes of some he has become the villain of the piece While we are demanding answers from everyone else maybe some supporters need to ask themselves a few hard questions as well.
Viper
Richard Bruton and “the Private school boys”……Varadkar, Coveney etc etc of the heave back in 2009 thought Enda was “far too nice” as well!!!.??
I don’t think he is the man for this job though…..
I am sure someone good will emerge.We get far more right than wrong in Mayo GAA
Precisely @1989. Enda is no pushover.
Yeah he did so much for Mayo when he was in power ,its great to see all the employment at home now and castlebar such a thriving town too. Nobody leaves mayo at all these days ,mighty enda .
Lads, ye have totally lost the plot.
I think we all need some type of trauma treatment after losing so many finals.
Forget about 2021 done and dusted.
Now what about the future, I’m all for trying new things, a new lead in the management team would be my priority, maybe there are too many links and bonds with the older players right now.
Agree Mayo 88
We should probably stay away from politics as well.This is a great place without it……apologies if my previous comments opened a segway into it
to win just once ..
100% agree .
I would suggest that fans who have all the solutions now that the final is over commit some of their time to their Local GAA Club. There are GAA Clubs all over the world. Manage an underage Team . Get Garda vetted. Collect underage players who have no transport for training games etc. Mark pitches, Have jerseys washed, Fundraise there are plenty of jobs. That will solve your tickets for the All Ireland Final. Even attend your clubs matches. Respect the volunteers who give their free time for the club. Attend the Clubs AGM and put your name forward for vacant positions. In time get onto the County Board and change what you think needs to be changed. In the meantime stop attacking the players, management and officers . All involved at the moment want to win the final.
Well said to win just once. Reality is we were very lucky to reach last two finals.
The people who have all the questions for James Horan – do people fell the players who missed the four goals on the day of the final should be asked questions. And what about the eight point scoring chances that were missed by the players – should these lads be asked why they didnt kick them over the bar.
While Horans game plan is not perfect- the reality is the game plan created more than enough chances to win the game. The ironic thing is Horan himself when he was playing always performed on the big day and kicked some massive scores in finals.
@O Sullivan, I’m glad to state this, but Politics controls most Gaa club that I was involved in, same here in Dublin.
Agreed, O’Sullivan – it’s far easier to sit on the ditch and carp about the shortcomings of those doing the work than it is to roll up your sleeves yourself and do all the unglamorous jobs that need to be done in GAA clubs up and down the country, as I know from my own first-hand experience in that area.
Agree with OSULLIVAN as well. Very easy to sit back and criticise the volunteers. When these people are then asked to help out – no they have no time etc. But they have time to turn up the day of a game and criticise the people on the sideline who gave up their free time. The best managers are always up in the stand and have all the solutions- until they are asked to contribute themselves.
Too many of those volunteers chosen by their buddies, far too many “Professionals” trying to coach teams, never played the game, have no clue, but fit into the new Gaa image.
I have no problem with this officials doing the Treasury/ Secretarial / Chairman roles but don’t let them near coaching or management particularly at underage level.
You know O’Sullivan you have put your finger on something.
I was talking to a friend a few years ago and he complimented me on my commitment to the cause. God he said, you hardly ever miss a game. I lapped all this up, needless to say. Some time later I was at the funeral of another friend and the eulogy detailed HIS commitment to the cause. He was Secretary of his local club, which involved most of the administration of a pretty big outfit. But in addition he was out getting his hands dirty on the dozens of small tasks that had to be done week in week out. He gave a lifetime of service. He was a producer, not a consumer.
I am a consumer. Sure, I put my hand in my pocket, and go to Portmarnock say on a Friday evening for a Mayo challenge, snaking through Dublin traffic, and getting home at midnight. But, no one asks me; I do it for my enjoyment. I consume rather than produce, and I enjoy the fruits of the labour of others.
Mayo88 – I can only comment on the club I am involved with for the last 12 years and I can tell you it is a struggle every year to get people to help out with underage teams. We have never turned away a volunteer regardless of their profession. Some of the best people involved with underage teams have not played the game. They do the necessary coaching courses and child welfare courses etc and can really relate to the underage players and get them playing to the best of their ability. However, I can only comment on what I see myself- it might be different in other clubs.
I’m the same as you, Southmayo Exile, and can only comment on my own experience of a decade helping out at juvenile level with my local club here in Dublin. Getting enough people to volunteer is always an issue and nobody who puts up his/her hand to help is turned away. It’s volunteers – in the main parents – who keep kids’ teams going and it requires sustained effort by those volunteers, years after often thankless year, to make this happen.
@O SULLIVAN, I doubt very much any manager would accept those questions which are phrased in such a way because the questions are completely loaded.
There is no one individual that a finger could or should be pointed to because it was a systemic failure from start to finish. McShane’s goal has been mentioned quite a bit and a couple of players names have been mentioned and indeed the manager but we didn’t lose the game because McShane scored, go back and have a look at what lead to the McShane goal, a systemic failure.
We lost the game the minute the final whistle was blown in the Tyrone v Kerry semi final.
Commenting on who should have started and who shouldn’t is purely subjective and regardless if it was X who started instead of Y, the systemic failure would still likely have occurred, don’t we all wish the problem was that solvable, start X instead of Y and all will be rosy.
It wouldn’t have mattered a jot if we had our own David Clifford in the team the last day, it was clear that the vast majority weren’t mentally prepared to start with and it wouldn’t have mattered if we were playing Monaghan either, we’d still have found a way to lose it.
Everything that has been mentioned here falls under one heading, “Insufficient Preparation”.
Of course volunteers are hugely important, it’s the same in every county, but don’t assume that anyone who asks questions isn’t already doing trojan work or haven’t dedicated their lives to their clubs and whether we had 20 volunteers for every task in a club it wouldn’t have mattered when we faced Tyrone.
And everyone has their own way of helping, for example I know one man who spends €20 of his pension every week to support Mayo GAA because that’s his way of supporting.
And there are plenty around the county like him.
There are also plenty “volunteers” who could not get an All-Ireland ticket, so it has to be a two-way street.
He to me is also a genuine supporter because he’s donating part of his pension, if he was fit enough he would still be doing voluntary tasks for his club as well.
Do you think that man would get an All-Ireland ticket ? Not a hope. Perhaps if he dressed in drag to look like Dolly Parton, and become a “spectator” instead, he would have a better chance.
And @Stephen cowley is totally correct what he says about the majority of “supporters” although my own impression is that the majority were “spectators” as opposed to supporters.
The negative energy emanating from the stands could not have helped our players either, we are their to support them not for them to support us, so lessons need to be learned there also.
No good going to games in masses if the majority are quiet as mice when the team need lifting.
I don’t see any point in going off on this wide tangent instead of targeting and finding ways to help Mayo get over the line in a final, we do not have a 70 year problem, we have a 70 minute problem.
In my opinion the main reason we lost to Tyrone was “Insufficient Preparation” and that problem is solvable but if we do not tackle it head on then we deserve nothing.
Because all of the issues that the majority of people have pointed to can be rooted back to “Insufficient Preparation” in one way or another because we know our players and manager are far better than what they produced against Tyrone.
And if people think that the only issues we have are “non scoring half forwards”, and a “poor defense” then they are making the exact same repeated mistakes which they are criticizing others for to begin with.
My own ideas to help find the solution to our main issue are very specific but will require buy-in from the CB, management and players and will require extra funding, so let’s see.
I still believe we do have a manager and squad of players who are capable of winning the All-Ireland in 2022, providing that they are all willing to accept the add-ons and some player sacrifices required in relation to the preparation for an All-Ireland final which increases their chances of success significantly.
You have to ask yourself, who wouldn’t want that.
Viper.
I think most clubs looked after their volunteers for a ticket for the final.
I accept some who deserved a ticket failed to get one but as I have said already the Connaught Final did not sell out and about 8000 Mayo supporters attended, There were 25000 Mayo supporters at the final so we did a lot better than Tyrone.
The question I will ask you is: Can you explain how Mayo Teams over the last 10 years with the Same Manager, Players, Backroom Staff and everything else that goes into preparing a Team can beat all the top contenders in Semi Finals but when it comes to Playing in a Final you state that in your opinion suddenly we are loosing because ” Insufficient Preparation”. I don’t know the answer myself to this question
@O SULLIVAN, there were many who were put off by the fact that kids were being charged full price for tickets for the Connacht Final and decided not to go. And because of having to buy a pod of a minimum of two many people including myself ended up having a spare ticket, and the people I contacted who I thought might go were already in the same situation, so I paid €70 for my ticket so I think there was an issue there regarding pricing and pods.
So the amount of tickets sold did not correspond to the amount who attended.
Because the pressure in a final is completely different than in a semi final, what it proves is that Mayo are capable of beating the best of them, granted there will be days when you have to accept that the opposition are just better regardless of what preparation you do, but even then if you look at the so called “Greatest Team of All Time”, we weren’t that far off them.
Added to that the pressure any Mayo team must absorb will always be greater than the oppositions so that must be factored into the preparation.
“Insufficient or Inadequate Preparation” can often sound like pointing fingers but that couldn’t be further from the truth.
What it really means is that if for example there were 5 box ticking exercises on a “Preparation List” and you ticked all those then you can rightfully say yes we are “Sufficiently or Adequately Prepared” but what I am talking about is adding to that list specifically to factor in the additional preparation that Mayo require and of course trying to up the standards of the preparation which is already being done.
So it is insufficient as regards to the amount as opposed to the quality of what is already being done.
Re Supporter’s (so called Supporter’s) ( Spectators) and Volunteers… A tale of Two Tribes.. Galway and Mayo.. In July 2015 in a backdoor game Galway played Derry in Salthill, a game that was on live TV a meagre 300 Supporter’s paid through the turnstiles, I’m sure allot of them were volunteers as well, but nobody could doubt that those who turned up were the finest of Supporter’s,.. Not sure how many Supporter’s from Derry turned up, if any the same day .. Two year’s later 2017… Similarly Mayo v the same Derry in Castlebar, back door game again live TV coverage… 11,465 turned up (poor enough attendance by Mayo standards).. that’s approximately 38 times the amount that paid into Pearce Stadium.. Mayo have enjoyed fantastic and abundance of support for year’s and year’s the envy of every other county in Ireland’.. And if you were in Mchale Park that day v Derry you were in absolutely no doubt as the crescendo of Mayo supporter got louder and louder and even more desperate.. their prayer’s were finally answered when a Connor Louftus pile-driver hit the net in the Bacon Factory goal, the game went to extra time and Mayo ran out easy winner’s in the end.. But not a hope in hell that would happen without the magnificent Mayo supporters who urged their team over the line, it was amazing to be there. .. You have to acknowledge the, abundance of Mayo supporters, their loyalty, their willingness to travel to the ends of Ireland to support their team… We, Mayo, Mayo player’s and the Mayo County Board would be allot worse off without them.. But we the ever so often demonstrated loyal Mayo supporters haven’t been appreciated on the whole, on the whole we have been used as a cash cow… We have been sent to Limerick to play Galway, (as were Mayo and Galways women sent to Munster for a Connacht Final) for a qualifer, no doubt because the CCCC taught that it was possibly more revenue for the Association,..surely that game that a coin could have been tossed for for Castlebar or Salthill, or easily could have been in a neutral and the best surface in Ireland at the time in Hyde Park Roscommon, any of the 3 other logical venue’s would have been easier for Mayo and Galway fans and kept money in Connacht which is what should have happened.. As it happened Mayo made up about 80% of the support in Limerick that day, but attendance was somewhat less than the allowed capisity of either The Hyde, Mchale or Pearce Stadium…The Mayo fans similarly sent to Croke Park for an early back door game v Westmeath, surely Hyde Park Roscommon was the correct choice again for that fixture.. Now no doubt about it, in every County in Ireland, the Clubs and the Club structure, the GAA could not exist without the most important people in the Association the club volunteers, but in Mayo the vast majority of those volunteers are also the Mayo supporters going to the ends of Ireland supporting their team, with the non Volunteer but also essential Mayo supporters.. Many if those Volunteer/Mayo supporters have just as many akward questions as the ordinary or so called Supporter’s… Now I have no doubt that some, Mayo players, some in Mayo Management and or County Board have received regetably abuse online or otherwise, and I don’t condone such abuse .. Such abuse, which I accept should not happen, cannot be used to dodge akward questions, for the County Board or for the Management of Mayo.. Everything is NOT Hunky Dory,.. Two year’s ago, the Mayo County Board, under a previous chairmanship, were mandated by the County Board delagates at a meeting to back the then Donegal motion before Congress being held in Cork in 2019 to take Dublin out of Croke Park for their so called neutral game in the super eights and Croke Park also being Dublin’s home venue.. Mayo did not back the Donegal motion, neither the Mayo Chairman or the Mayo Secetary attended Congress.. If I was the Mayo County Secretary I might think twice about labelling Mayo supporters as (so called Supporter’s) in case a Secetary who didn’t attend Congress might be labeled as a so called Secetary.
Viper that only make it worse if there were people in attendance who had spare unused tickets and still did not sell out. Galway had just as many there as Mayo.
As regards the kids tickets there were plenty kids at the final , money not an issue there.
As regards insufficient preparation as opposed to the quality of preparation I don’t understand if it is that simple that the collective efforts of all the different people who have been involved over the last ten years, different Managers, Coaches and Selectors have all have failed to ”Adequately Prepare”. .
As you say the pressure in a final is completely different than in a semi final so are you saying that it is the pressure that is causing the problem. Maybe we need a more relaxed approach rather than a more intense approach. As I say I don’t know the answer.
Here we go again , has it ever happened before to any other county ,where 2 players who played in a final = 97 against the worst Kerry team i ever saw and lost , those same 2 are in charge now ,and lost as manager and assistant i think he is in any case, the rot runs deep in Mayo football . You can talk all day about clubs and tickets it dont stop the ball going in to the Mayo net, one man broke his contract this year why cant another, go and get him asap, the best mayo team ever prepared was in 2016 ,not 2017 some players had a defeatist attitude in the 2017 final, as regards the 97 semi final mayo played good that day , the big one was 14 that day but he kept creeping out, the present manager was playing , why was he not in the starting 15 for the final, would anyone call that politics, Mayo
had the best fielder in Ireland on the team that day , imo he was the best fielder that i saw from Mayo. how can anyone coach someone when they have not played. i know a chairman that was , he wouldnt know a football from a rugby ball. slan
@O SULLIVAN, of course it wasn’t an issue for the families who were there, what I’m talking about is the families who weren’t there because of the way the tickets were priced up.
Do you have the figures of tickets sold v attendance by any chance or a verifiable link ?
Collective efforts are an absolute waste of time, I know that very well. You get nowhere by having too many people having an opinion and in the end nothing gets done. All you get is a mish mash of ideas. You need one strong minded individual who has a clear plan and is able to demonstrate to all involved why this is a more beneficial route to take.
One man in charge can easily oversee everything is followed as set out.
As I said earlier there will be additional sacrifices to be made by players in the two week period in the run up to the final, a temporary cranking up of the backroom among other things which will have a cost implication, but nothing outrageous.
All of the above would be invisible to the public.
Mayo getting to a final will always be a tense affair, the doubts starting to creep in, it’s normal when a team have lost so many finals and as part of the extra preparation I am talking about all these issues will be covered as well.
You’re not going to eradicate nervousness completely, especially with Mayo but that’s why our approach needs to go the extra mile gaining those small percentages all over the place.
People will always try and counter by saying “but we missed good goal chances” and that’s why we lost, but they are failing to ask themselves, why did we miss those chances, what does it come down to, it comes down to poor decision making as opposed to a lack of skill.
And then you must target the reason for the poor decision making.
If we had such a lack of skill, we wouldn’t have had the results we had over the last decade.
We also tend to forget very quickly the intense pressure any Mayo manager is under on All-Ireland final day so the add-ons are to help him as well.
“Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe.”
@Viper, Interesting what you say as regards our preparation for the two weeks before an All Ireland final, hard to disagree with you.. But in that regards was our team not very well prepared for the All Ireland finals of 2016 & 2917?, The evidence even with 4 and 5 year’s hindsight suggests they were, even with some certainly unplanned for setback both of those years, overall 2016 and 2016 replay, and 2017 I taught that overall Mayo played the finest 3 games Mayo ever played… We left Croke Park, heartbroken but mighty proud of our performance.. Now after 2020 and 2021 more scar tissue, I think it’s something that Mayo could benifit from.. But only, if the Team, the Management and the County Board recognises that they was a problem in the first place… As regards supporters how come the overwhelming majority were not in Croke Park last September as vocal as they were in Castlebar, Mayo v Derry in 2017?..
@Leantimes, Rochford, Buckley and McEntee are no longer there.
I know some here don’t rate Buckley as highly as I do but he has many more strings to his bow than people think.
Rochford and Buckley in particular focused a lot on tactics and how to negate the opposition in finals and you are right to say we were very proud of our performances and felt cursed with bad luck in those finals.
But there is a completely different feeling this time, because there is no way a manager and so many players would have an off day if they were sufficiently prepared.
I’m at odds as to whether the seemingly lack of a curve ball caused the breakdown or whether psychological issues had a drastic impact on our overall performance, in other words did one lead to another.
Was a decision made that “we’ll play our game” and when the realization that “our game” wasn’t working against Tyrone did panic set in which not only spread through the team but some would say onto the sideline as well.
It’s much easier to throw in a curve ball at the beginning and revert to type later if need be than try and work on a curve ball when the game has started.
On a separate issue, I often wonder are Mayo forwards in particular too conscious of the fact they are wearing the GPS and is it having any impact on their natural instincts or have they been too focused on “putting in the yards”, only a thought that’s all.
@Leantimes, I’m sure it’s a different type of pressure going into a final as favorite and as a complete underdog facing “The Greatest Team Of All Time”, where it is hoped you would win rather than expected you would win so straight away a different type of preparation would be required.
Headlines like “Why Mayo will beat Tyrone” are not alone doing you a bit of damage, they are a great boost for the opposition.
Put it this way, if my pre final plan was in force, players and management wouldn’t be reading or listening to that type of stuff, there would be zero outside noise.
Viper, I’ve read your comments since the loss and some decent points ,some fantasist stuff but now this is just getting ridiculous , unless you lock the players up in a gaol that provides solitary confinement , how on earth do you restrict their media viewing in the modern world ,
Viper .how come you know about 2016 inner workings where have you been since then, just to let you know , you have mentioned the wrong man there, what has Buckley proved , Monaghan were easily beaten this year ,what has Rochford done since he left Mayo. Mayo in 2016 were a special team that year and the best i ever seen playing for the county, they were good in 17, but dublin scored more points than Mayo , in 2016 Dublin needed more than the referee to save them, the rest is history, Mayo scored 15 points in that game, i had the big money on them to win x 6 if only one own goal scored i would still have lost the bet. if you look back at the Tyrone game that year , there was a spark in that team.. slan anois
@Sean Burke, I’d like you to point out where the “fantasist stuff” is ?
You are painting this picture that I would somehow forcefully restrict players having access to the media, without any reference to what I said regarding player buy-in regarding some extra sacrifices in the run up to the final.
Do you believe our players respect leadership or is twitter more important to them than increasing their chances of winning an All-Ireland ?
Because that’s what you are hinting at here, that our players would be unwilling to respect leadership or that they somehow can not be trusted.
If that is true, then I think we are all wasting our time trying to help, lets take the easy way out and blame the players.
I don’t work that way, I find solutions and I dismiss naysayers completely.
I’d like you to point out this “fantasist stuff” because it’s a pretty insulting choice of words.
@Sick as a parrot, They lost by point to Tyrone, we lost by 5 and Monaghan scored as much as we did, so how you make out they were “easily beaten” I don’t know.
There are already signs that Monaghan have improved since Buckley went there, there is no doubt about that.
What wrong man did I mention ?
Rochford is not managing Donegal.
Special team ? So nothing to do with the manager or the backroom at all ?
Is anyone else getting weary of all the post mortem stuff? Or is it just me? I reckon a toxic narrative of blame and accusation has developed the likes of which I have not seen before. It feels like it has got to a level of inquisition which could easily do long term damage.
Someone in charge needs to take charge of this fairly soon.
My thinking is that James Horan and his management and players need to reflect on the game and see what emerges. Then JH needs to talk to the county executive and to the media. And put this behind us!
For better or worse JH and the vast bulk of the players will be around in 2022. They need to deal with this loss asap and move forward and so do we!
Viper, i have asked you a few questions in the last few weeks, you have answered none of them, Rochford is the coach in Donegal according to the papers , lets have your plan out in the open , you said you had one last week, who are you , have you a plan to stop the ball going into the Mayo net, Buckley is a journey man , why didnt he produce results , he was with 3 different managers and nothing happened, it can be arranged to visit the house of prayer in secrecy, i cannot see any other way out, Help
slan
A phrase you will hear after most, if not every final, from the victorious team is, ” we asked the players to buy in to “.
I’m sure at the start of each campaign the mayo lads are asked to ” buy in to “, whatever the master plan is for the year.
Therein lies a major problem in itself.
If you loose one final, it might be okay to write it off and say ” we were close. We will finish the job next year “. You probably can the lads to buy in to going all out again for a second year.
The problem is we are near the summit for the past 10 years.
Some of our players are been asked to buy in for 10 years now.
Even the young lads, Ryan, Tommy and Oisin have now bought in for two years.
At some stage, the buy in mantra does not work anymore. They’ve all bought in, or been asked to buy in many times now.
At the start of any campaign, due to our failure in so many finals, there has to be a lack of belief that this is going to be the year. Doubt has to be there from the get go.
Buy in only works if there is a full on belief, full on commitment and a full on vision that the final outcome is going to be positive.
That to me is Mayo’s main problem for the coming campaign and campaigns.
How can you possibly get to a starting position at the start of a year, with a squad fully believing that they are going to win the All Ireland by hook or by crook, if they have already committed their lives and limbs to the exact same goal on several previous occasions without ever finding the pot of gold.
I’m not sure how you solve this problem but I would say it is nigh on impossible to expect this squad of players to buy in to anything for the start of our next campaign.
Mind you, it’s going to be difficult for fans to buy in to the belief that this could be our year also.
Could poster’s make their point’s in less than 50 word’s as it gets a bit boring to read any more than that.
@Ros Town.. No.
Fifty words might be a bit tight, RosTown! As the saying goes, though, brevity is the soul of wit and, for sure, many comments posted of late have been on overly long.
I’m not getting into a bickering match with you viper , the fantasy stuff for me is an anonymous poster who only started posting recently , has the secret formula to gettin us over the line . That’s fantasy in the context of I dont know who you are and what your experience is , if any. Tis like someone saying after watching a house building documentary on tv that they could build a house better than anyone . Perhaps you do have experience , perhaps you are an incredible individual with a remarkable well thought out plan but you’ll have to introduce yourself and speak about the plan ,otherwise it is indeed fantasy .
@Sean Burke. Viper makes some valid points about the team preparations 2 weeks out but for me the final is won/lost in the training sessions during the winter when the hard work is really put in and the standards for the team are set. 2 weeks out, it is about resting and preparing oneselves mentally.
i remember tom parsons telling me for the 2017 final he was fortunate to be given the friday off work beforehand while the man he was marking got 2 weeks off and had access to physio/massage and had meals delivered every day. no doubt the dubs set the standards with preparation. they have the greatest amount of resources and with the easy ride in Munster can invest when we get to AI final series
i think it is combination of many factors and part of the skill/luck of the management team is to find the formula that gets maximum performance. Given all the big games mayo have taken part in over the last 10 years, one would hope we should be better prepared
We lost the last 2 finals but I think we used up a lot of our luck getting to them. I would like to see Coen as captain next year and a new full back and goalie. A half forward line that doesn’t score is one thing but their work rate was way down in the final. A spell on the subs bench would be no harm for some players.
@Séan Burke.. I think Viper has a very good point.. I don’t have a secret formula or am not a phycologist either.. But there was plenty of evidence from my perspective of what’s now called Performance Anxiety,.. on the sideline and on the pitch…. And probably a sence of Dejavu as we watched repeated very poor execution of great chances by too many of our players.. I was there and although some Mayo supporters tried very hard to get the Mayo crowd around them going, it was hard to get enthusiastic!
And 100 % agree too but no more than the opposition in politics tis handy to point out the wrongs but how do you put that right ,I’m all ears to hearing the solution .
@Jr, .. what luck did we use up on the way to the final?.. Apart from Shane Walsh the Galway team have been performing very poorly since the onset of Covid.. In the All Ireland Semifinal, an evidently much poorer Dublin team eventually ran out of road.. We got 3 decision from the Ref, Connor Lane, that we were lucky to get.. Robbie Hennelly got to retake the 45… Evan Commoford got done for over carrying, and in extra time, Colm Basquell got harshly black carded in extra time.. But look at the other side of the scale.. Virtually every other 50/50 decision when Dublin’s way.. John Small should have been red carded for the worst and most dangerous tackle in years on Eoghan McLoughlin.. John Small should also have gotten another straight red for a punch on Ryan O Donohue,.. James McCarthy should have been Red Carded for an elbow to the throat of Diarmuid O’Conner, and Paddy Small should also have been Red Carded for a similar assualt on James Carr, which saw James having to be taken off… The All Ireland final was a whole new ball game and Tyrone weren’t lucky, or Mayo unlucky!
Lean times we were lucky last year that Cork beat Kerry and could have been a lot further behind Galway at half time this year
@Sean Burke,
What watching documentaries about house building has to do with anything I don’t know, but you do realize when you watch those documentaries about constructing super structures that the project manager doesn’t actually operate the piling rig himself, he doesn’t do all the groundwork himself, he doesn’t construct the concrete or steel frame himself or he doesn’t do the fit out himself but he makes it all happen. That’s the way it works.
But if you want to base everything on someone’s personal experience and proven track record then people like James Horan would never get a gig in the future managing a team with aspirations of winning an All-Ireland.
Or the likes of Ciaran McDonald would never get a job coaching purely based on the fact that he is a Mayo icon but have our forwards actually improved ?
Or what about the truck driver in the backroom who was mentioned here, what is his track record in the role he is hired to do ?
If we were basing recruitment on track records solely then we would only recruit the likes of Jim McGuinness who have actually won an All-Ireland.
It is yourself who said the following; “there is something truly amiss with our mindset”, “ his tactical nous has come into question once again” (referring to JH), “we bottled it”, those are your words and not mine.
But yet when someone comes along to try and bring some professionalism into the set up you refer to it as “fantasist stuff”, simply because you do not understand it.
So if we go back to our super structure analogy, the man on the shovel may also feel a bit lost having a conversation about project management with the project manager.
Why impression would he give the project manager by acting a smart alec and calling him a “fantasist”.
I don’t think he would have a job the following week, not with me anyway.
You are wrong, I don’t have to introduce myself to you at all, the only people I need to introduce myself to initially are on the County Board and it’s unfortunate that Liam Moffatt is stepping down in that regard.
I comment here because the blog is well moderated and just because I may only have started posting recently doesn’t mean anything.
It doesn’t mean that I haven’t read every comment here or listened to every podcast over the years.
The recent POTY poll had a total vote of 2,753 which means the vast majority of don’t comment but that doesn’t mean they don’t enjoy the content.
And it’s not that you don’t agree with my views per se, it’s just that you are very curious that’s all and that’s fine but it would be totally amateurish and vain of me to come on here and say, this is who I am and this is my plan exactly because it would go totally against what my goal is, to inject some professionalism into the set up and cut out any vanity that may exist.
Regarding Mayo vocal support on final day, if the Mayo team are relying on that to get them over the line it’s a bad state of affairs indeed. They’ve enough experience of losing All Ireland finals now, so logic would say they should be able to draw enough learning from those experiences, to try to prevent repeating past mistakes, be it in preparation, mindset, skill execution, tactics etc.
If Horan has any sense he might just walk away from this job and the questioning circus. Some Mayo fans think they have a right to know everything that’s going on and question the manager on every detail. How is this allowed to be so public?
It’s mad stuff and we are the laughing stock of the country.
I know there’s a school of thought that we’re half the problem, ie the hype and expectation, blogs, sheep being painted etc, and there may be some truth there. But dammit, most of that is incredibly positive. You could spin it the other way, ie if the support wasn’t there we wouldn’t be still competing at the top level.
Sorry Mayo team and management, but the onus and responsibility is on you to get it ‘right.
@Jr.. there is no finite about of luck good luck or bad luck a team could have… Now knowing that as I do, I will wish you all the good luck in the world, knowing full well that you having a bit of good luck won’t deminish the amount of good luck available for me or anyone else to avail of… I could do with a bit of good luck badly.
Viper…….your overly long posts are becoming tiresome and you are losing the audience
Spot on Yew Tree. Sean Burke agree I would love to hear the solution. Anyone can be wise after any event but that is not to say that if their views were to be acted on things would be any different. Hurlers on the ditch . Jim McGuinness had no track record when he got he job at the start. Brian Coady with an excellent record is struggling for the last few years. Much easier when the deck is stacked in your favor and you have maybe up to 30 really top class players then your sub bench is as strong as your starting 15 and injuries have not the same effect. Dublin and Kilkenny had that at their peak . Mayo for most of the finals had a weaker bench and were very lucky to make the last two finals
When you listen to the Kerry players and you listen to Jack O’Connor the contrast in attitudes compared to Mayo is stark.
The accepted view in Kerry is players should be privileged to don the Green and Gold and accept heavy criticism if they do not perform, while in Mayo it has often been mentioned that it’s the supporters who should be privileged that anyone commits to line out for the county at all.
Jack O’Connor was asked in the last couple of days, how will you judge success ?, his answer was “how do you think”.
So from the word go Jack knows if he doesn’t deliver an All-Ireland or perhaps a few then he will have been a failure and the Kerry public would have no hesitation in calling him a failure either and he accepts that.
If we want to call ourselves a top four team then I’m afraid all involved must accept that as well as accepting praise then constructive criticism also comes with the gig.
I don’t think the issue with Mayo is the fact that clear and obvious mistakes were made, what is irritating supporters most is the apparent inability to learn from previous mistakes.
Even the most patient have a breaking point and say we really now have to start having a forensic look at everything.
And there is nothing wrong with that and it can be done without referring to individual mistakes because that’s history now.
Someone referred to us as being a laughing stock, and they may be right, but we will be an even bigger laughing stock if we brush clear and obvious issues under the carpet and continue as “normal”, because “normal” is not working.
We do not have a bad set up if we have the ability to get to finals on a regular basis, so that’s a strong base to start with compared to many counties.
So we can quickly identify where the failure is and target that because I firmly believe that maxing out on every aspect of preparation and introducing new aspects to that is the only way to increase our chances of success in a final because regardless of what players we find if the pre final preparation I am referring to isn’t done then the outcome will very likely be the same.
I was reading some article in the examiner last week which would be really relevant to this debate , you can have two opposing views here and both could be right . Like there is merit in theres something not right to lose so many finals which could be down to how we prepare for finals but there is also merit in we were lucky to get to the final, Dubs killed us in the first half , galway had the better of us also in first half .
My own view is amateur and simplistic , I cant understand why loftus missed when I’d back him to score that in any other game and why rod opted for the top corner option which is 100 % if you hit the target but it’s like a bullseye ,why not go for the safer return of low corner ? That all relates to imo BJP point of a need to loosen up on AIF day , why are we so tight , how do you take that weight of history off their shoulders and just play the game . Viper if you have the solution , I’ll buy ya a feed of drink the week after we win it I promise you that much and I’ll start a campaign to have a statue of the viper erected in whatever town you’re from .
I don’t think as someone said that we were lucky to reach the last two finals.
We won and deserved to win.
In the same way we were not unlucky in losing the last two finals. Beaten fair and square.
No suggestion should be laughed ” out of order ” either here on the blog.
Brainstorming is the very first step of invention or indeed of improving any current design.
Everything is out on the table, every idea, and through evaluation the bits that are not needed are stripped away until the optimum and best fit is what you are left with, but nothing is overlooked.
Listening to the podcast on the club championship, the guys mention certain players who have been performing very well in their club matches, one or two have previously been involved with the mayo set up. Just because it may not have worked out previously for them before you would hope that the pencil has not been drawn through their names and that they will get another chance.
Another couple of players picked who are playing exceptionally well, I hope they get a good look as well.
By the way the podcast was very enjoyable and each division got a good review.
Viper, who are you and what is your experience in coaching elite teams? You must be fairly well known in the industry if you can devise and implement a plan to get Mayo of all teams over the line? I suspect you’re nothing more than a spoofer but I’m happy to be proven wrong
For the people blaming poor management or preparation/mindset before the final…
How did Lee Keegan and Stephen Coen manage to turn in such excellent games against Tyrone? How did Aidan manage to win the throw in and play a lovely crossfield ball into Tommy, who got us up and running? How did we manage to create 4 goal chances, far more than any final in recent memory? How did the likes of Darren Coen and Jordan Flynn play so much worse off the bench than in the semi final? My theory is the players have to take ultimate responsibility. Too many just lost their individual battles and we didn’t have the strength in depth to change things in that scenario. James Horan made a couple of mistakes but they were minor issues in comparison.
Don’t agree we were lucky to make either final however. That would imply someone deserved to beat us along the way. Galway were flattered by the half time scoreline and Dublin only played well for a short while in the first half. They had ample time to regroup for extra time but couldn’t do it.
@Ultair, You insult someone and then want them to prove you wrong, that’s like me asking you if you can you prove to me that you’re not a jumped up b*ll*x.
Would you answer me or ignore me.
You don’t need to know who I am because who I am has nothing to do with you.
@Ultair, not one post did I mention anything about coaching elite teams, not one.
All – please pull back from playing the person rather than the ball. The debate should focus on the points being raised and shouldn’t be aimed at those making these points.
@Ulrair, why would we have to know the identity of Viper?.. After all nobody knows who the Stig is on Top Gear, but he sure can drive.
@Leantimes if the Stig pulled up to McHale park asking to meet with the County Board I’m sure he’d be at least asked to remove his helmet? When it comes to Mayo GAA we all demand transparency right?
@Viper I apologise for any insult. I hope your meeting with the County Board is productive and if you do manage to help get us over the line next year I’ll chip in with Sean Burke above for the pints.
Viper.. What happens your plan when Mayo dont reach a final, shall we say 2030 before another final with Mayo involved , the bet i have on now 40/1 that Mayo wont reach another final before 2026, i also have a bet that Kerry wont win a final before 2026 1 year more than the last lapse they had, this is a big one 100/1, this is not bull. Can you say what you are going to do if there is no final, if you are thinking Offaly dont bother ,head for Achill a better and easier solution imo. slan
@Ultair, but I don’t think we are on the County Board.. so most of us don’t need to know his or her Identity.. If by chance, what I call ‘Performance Anxiety’ in the All Ireland final, concidering the undoubted extra pressure any Mayo team is under, given that we have lost 10 All Ireland finals since 1989 and won none, is the understandable reason why we have failed to execute so many outstanding chances.. If someone has something to say that can improve our performance in that particular regard.. I want the Mayo County Board and the Mayo management to hear about it, first of all.. They plural will have to decide if the information given is relavent and how to act on it if it is deemed relevant.. Look at it this way, what’s to lose?.. I genuinely don’t know how the Mayo County Board or Mayo Management will react, if someone was to come up with some good ideas, but it wouldn’t hurt to listen anyhow?.. I would hope that whoever would attempt to do Mayo such a service would get a better reception than, was it called the Mayo Strategic Plan so many years ago..
I don’t see anything wrong with Vipers post and He she is entitlled to their opinion. We have to look at things forensically if we are to change. As a forward myself from a junior club the first thing I look at every year be it in the FBD or the league is have our forwards Improved and is there any semblance of a forward plan devoloping.right up to and including all ireland final day I couldn’t see any plan and our forwards didn’t improve and if anything have regressed. I wouldn’t be too sorry to see Ciaran McDonald walk away in my opinion he hasn’t improved our forward play.
One positive and new aspect of our final performance was our creation of 4 decent goal chances, as another poster has pointed out. This is something positive to work on. Poor execution is where we failed. Also, a completely blunt half forward line. McDanger has plenty to work on if he remains.
@Leantimes, I accept all that. I’m just curious as to what these plans and ideas are and the qualifications of the people behind them. To even get in the door it must be big stuff or do the county board just grant an audience to anyone these days?
@Ultair.. that’s the Pope in the Vatican your thinking about, granting an audience.. But the Pope does less preaching.
I just wish St. Patrick would come back even for a day.
You’ve got my vote there Olive.
Have some of ye forgot that we are still actually building a team.
The more experienced guys done quite well so I think a lot of our failing was inexperience.
I also think this final loss is the kick in the arse all involved needed and I trust all involved to get it right for next year.
At this stage the only one who hasn’t being slated is the bus driver although he was accused earlier about parking up late.
olive I’m with you on Saint Patrick,plenty of overtime for him.
@All41n14all, It’s not inexperience that’s killing us, on the contrary it’s the experience of losing finals, there never seems to be an issues of picking that trait up quickly and people don’t forget it wasn’t Dublin or Kerry we were playing either, people are not stupid.
It didn’t take Dooher and Logan long to figure out how to win a game of football, so experience counts for nothing, it could be argued that you can become too set in your ways, same old failings.
The so called young lads with “inexperience” chipped in with 10 out of the 15 points while fellas with lots of experience are still getting caught in no mans land.
The good thing is they have several months to figure it out and they’ll be expected to be back in the final next year and sufficiently prepared otherwise it wont be Saint Patrick who will be arriving, but Saint Jude.
Morning from Rainy Chicago
I agree with @Viper that inexperience can no longer be used as factor when analysing the teams performance in the big games at Croke Park. Every player has now played in 2 AI finals while most have played in many more.
I wish James Horan took bull by the horns and ended all the rumours/speculation by doing an interview with the mayo news podcast (also suggested by Ed Mcgreal in Mayo News). we dont need to know all the ins and outs but i think the radios silence before and after the final is disrespectful to all the fans
@ Mayo Fan in Chicago, Well Liam Moffat has now stated publicly that anxiety is an issue regarding mistakes and the County secretary has also stated publicly that mistakes were made both on and off the pitch.
Some of the references made were eerily similar to the type of language I use myself which is interesting.
But this is exactly the type of thing I have been preaching from day 1, identify the root causes and tackle them hard but in the correct way.
Regarding the issue I mentioned a lot here about analysis, Liam Moffat has also stated publicly that a huge amount of analysis was done on Tyrone but I think that’s something which needs further probing to see if there is a weakness in that link.
I welcome the messages coming from the County Board at the moment because they now have an obligation to act.
It could open a path to present my plan to them or it could all fall apart, let’s see.
We need to accept some cold facts. One of the biggest for me is the fact that Tyrone failed to score from play in the second half until the 67th minute with Darragh Canavan’s fisted point. Highlighted by Kevin Mcstay in his excellent piece in the Irish Times the following week. As Kevin notes, this stat hardly a sign of a “rampant team”. Given this, it’s even more damning that we failed to win, especially with all the second half chances we had.
It grates me to then hear the likes of Andy Moran making excuses like Tyrone are just a bit ahead of of us currently. It’s a typical Mayo excuse and he should know better. It’s the likes of Andy who should be calling out our mental difficulties, not letting his former friends and colleagues off the hook. Andy and Paddy’s pod is cutting edge right now. But if this is his true view of where Mayo are at I’d be concerned. Perhaps he’s saying it more out of loyalty to his previous teammates. Perhaps he has a blindspot.
To me, though, it’s symbolic of how in Mayo we fail to learn from the past, fail to wake up to what everyone else clearly sees. Too many excuses, too many hero stories.
Correction to the above: Tyrone failed to score a ‘point’ from play in the second half until the 67th minute.
@liberal role
unfortunately making excuses, blaming anyone but ourselves and the attitude of there is always next year are part of the culture of mayo gaa inclusive of players, management, county board and fans.
I am personally of the view that one needs to grab the opportunity when the opportunity presents itself. there is NO next time and that mindset in my opinion is where we fall down. Until we change this approach or at the very least try and address it, we will always struggle when it comes to the big games.
I think Stephen Coen should be made captain for 2022 which in turn could benefit Aido. Not been a certain starter will hopefully motivate him to push on
I’m of the firm opinion that we played to 60% of our ability as a collective unit against Tyrone. We simply didn’t show up. We had so many chances to get ahead of Tyrone in that 2nd half and squandered them all. Tyrone didn’t score feck all bar the goals in that second half but took their few opportunities when they came. We don’t have enough firepower to win games against the top 5 teams playing that poorly. If we play to 90% of our ability, I do believe we have the ability to beat any of the top teams. Dublin are squarely back with ourselves the other 5 teams in the chasing pack.
I was extremely happy with the situation at half time we where not playing well but both teams where neck and neck. I honestly thought like the Dublin and Galway game we would kick on in the 2nd half.
I know this is hearsay but I believe had Cillian been available we would be at least 3 points ahead at half time.
Morgan started kicking over the midfield press after half time taking Ruane out of the game. At that point I would have tried putting Aidan in that half back line Midfield area. Even with that we where still breaking through Tyrones defense talking the ball into contact yes, but breaking through at times.
We had the chances, 3 good goal opportunities, multiple good opportunities to kick points, and a missed penalty. Problem was our forwards they couldn’t score on the day. We were not outplayed against Tyrone we simply kicked it away. Only Mayo full forward to win his own ball was O Donahue. Other than that our full forward line was rudderless. When you know as a team that your forward line is not good enough you have no other choice but to chase forward and leaving holes at the back.
You can blame Henelly for one of the goals but we left our full back line wide open. I don’t blame the management Christ, it’s all Ireland final day the other two in the full forward line where useless. Aidan played ok in the first half won some ball, but he is an aerial threat not a finisher. He was non existent in the second half. Whether it be great defense from Tyrone or All Ireland Final nerves whatever they simply didn’t show up. Had Cillian O Connor been playing, Mayo would have won that game by at least three points. That’s the fine line and that’s what makes this so heartbreaking, we are so close. I don’t play into the bullshit in the media. We are good enough to win with what we have. What we may require though is one more marquee forward who can score. I wish that Andy Moran was 5 years younger. We need someone like him, another threat to compliment O Donaguhe and Cillian. I would take another Andy Moran type but to be honest to put us out ahead of the pack we need another forward in the likeness of Cillian. We need a Gooch, it needs to happen soon as Lee Keegan and Cillian only have another year or two left after which we really have to start another team rebuild. It’s a shame for these two players and Aidan O Se they deserved so much more. I hope to God they reach the promised land it is richly deserved.