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Not surprisingly, the county’s dirty linen is on full show for the delectation of the nation this morning, with all three nationals covering the ongoing managerial appointment fiasco. (We need a gate-related name for it, by the way – the obvious one being Paddygate, I guess.) Here’s what they have to say – Irish Examiner, Irish Independent, Irish Times.
The best piece is the one in the Examiner, with Edwin McGreal of the Mayo News joining forces with Terry Reilly to provide an in-depth account of how the imbroglio developed over the last few days. This piece includes what Liam McHale had to say on NewsTalk’s Off The Ball show last night, a feature in which Ed played a starring role, laying out coherently and comprehensively all of the details of this whole sorry and deeply embarrassing mess. For anyone who hasn’t yet listened to this, it’s available here. It’s well worth your while doing so.
The focus now shifts to the County Board meeting tomorrow night where Chairman Paddy McNicholas will obviously be in the firing line. That Examiner piece says that there’s talk of a no confidence motion being tabled and if it is I doubt such a motion will have trouble being seconded. Paddy simply has to walk the plank for this one.
Two issues then arise. Firstly, should anyone else go? If the whole thing was a solo run, then arguably not – at least not tomorrow night, though the argument for fundamental change at Officer level in November has obviously been strengthened. If anyone else was involved, in particular in propagating those idiotic untruths during the course of the attempted cover-up on Saturday, then they could be in the cross-hairs too tomorrow night.
The second issue relates to the appointment itself and here I think the way forward is far less clear and the possibility of our ending up in an even bigger disaster zone very real. On this one, it’s crucial that calm heads prevail or otherwise we could end up having trouble filling the vacancy at all.
Personally, I have no problem with the new management team and I always felt that either of the two nominations would have been fine. We now know that they were proposing very different approaches on how to take the team forward with Noel Connelly and Pat Holmes stressing continuity while Kevin McStay’s approach would have been a more “radical” one. It’s now clear that the decision makers in the process made their minds up very quickly and wanted continuity.
But here’s the thing – those in whose gift it was to handle the process were fully entitled to favour continuity over change and it’s not exactly crime of the century either that they made their minds up so quickly. This isn’t the Public Appointments Commission we’re talking about here and it’s an obvious fact that inter-county managers have been appointed by a variety of weird and wonderful ways over the years.
In addition, anyone involved in hiring – which I did a bit of myself some years back – will know that decisions can be made very early in any appointment process but the key thing that has to happen is that the process that the candidates go through is fair and transparent and the hiring decision is made properly. Paddygate, when boiled down to its essence, is all about a process failure and a shameful amateurish attempt to cover this up when it was exposed as such.
I can’t, then, join in the calls for this particular truck to be backed up to the starting point. Getting Noel and Pat to “step aside” until such time as all the outrage that’s currently swirling around has subsided will serve no purpose other than to ensure that they, along with Kevin McStay and Liam McHale, are out of the picture. There’s no way either set of candidates would put their names forward a second time and if we’re forced to start the whole appointment thing all over again there’s no guarantee we’ll end up with a management team that is as good as the one that this deeply flawed process has produced.
It needs to be borne in mind that Noel and Pat have done nothing wrong here. They didn’t dictate the appointment process and it wasn’t their fault that neither they nor Kevin McStay were interviewed formally. While it’s obviously the case, as Ed McGreal pointed out on Off The Ball last night, that their appointment is “tainted” does that mean it is fatally undermined? Hand on heart, I can’t see this is the case.
There’s an enormous amount of anger in the air right now – a cursory glance at the comments section (where a few more contributions from less hot-headed posters wouldn’t go amiss, by the way) quickly confirms this. Where it comes to Paddygate and the wider failings of the County Board, that anger is largely justified but that’s where the focus needs to be kept. Those with influence in clubs within the county need to make their voices heard there as it’s there that calls for change can have real effect. Shouting from the rooftops here isn’t going to change anything. If people really do want change then they need to get stuck in where it counts and make it happen. Starting tomorrow night.
Paddy McNicholas has to go for obvious reasons
All other members of the interview panel, all of whom arr executive board members, need to go too. That includes Aiden McLoughlin for his role in tge cover up, Vincent Neary as secretary for going along with it and the same goes for the remaining members.
It may have started as a solo run by McNicholas but then the likes of McLoughlin and Neary got involved too.
Heads need to roll and at county board level things need to start again, not at team level tho. Connelly/Holmes shud be let get on with things
I would love to know what this “radical” proposal was, and I wonder if it will leak over the next few days.
Secondly, I fear that this will hover over the Connolly/Holmes reign. Every step they take incorrectly will be followed by a chorus of “We should have gone with McStay”. I hope this is not the case, but unless a line is firmly drawn under this incident I can’t see it being any other way.
Good article willie joe. I’m watching from afar here on other side of the world shaking my head how the county board screwed this one up. There’s nothing untoward about favouring one candidate over the other, and if they decided they wanted continuity early in the piece then simply going through the interview process in a professional manner and then announcing pat and noel as the new men after the interviews was the simple and straightforward thing to do. No bridges burned and no dirty linen aired in public. What was the big rush??
I have to say that some of the comments are just silly though on the previous thread. It seems certain posters wanted mc stay and are still holding out hope of this happening despite all that has happened, and hence are calling on Holmes and Connolly to step aside, and that their appointment is compromised. That horse has well and truly bolted lads. We have a management team in place for next year now and there is no way they should step aside. It’s too late. It’s also very unfair on pat and noel who have in my opinion put together an excellent management team. Please everyone, get behind them for next season, even if you were in the mc stay camp.
Kevin mc stay should be given and full and unreserved apology. He’s been treated very poorly.
Paddy mc Nicholas should go also, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he squirms out of this one. I suggest people who are angry at the county board get down to your local club AGM this year and channel your frustrations where they might actually have an influence on proceedings. Mindless rants on twitter and Facebook do nothing and solve nothing either. Getting involved at club level is the only way to make meaningful changes at county board level.
Most importantly though, please stop calling on pat and noel to step down. They deserve our full support from here on.
This won’t matter one single iota come the 1st of February and throw-in in Tralee.
It’s a vacuum in the GAA world at the moment and all sorts of shite is being sucked into the void.
On a side note, it’s a pity Hanley wasn’t playing as well as he is and he got dropped like Walsh, sorry, did I say dropped, I meant to say coming home to help the cause. Sure we all know the bright lights of Sydney have nothing on Fecal in January.
Very well written piece as always Willie Joe. Personally I would prefer the “continuity plan” over “Radical” plan. I think its important to keep the great work James Horan did. So I believe Noel and Pat deserve the job. Its just unfortunate how badly it was handled. I have to give credit to the class Mchale and Mcstay have shown in the way they have reacted.
Fully in agreement on all counts there, WJ.
Anyone living in the county who is a member of a club (and if your living in Mayo, reading or contributing on this site and not a member of a club then I’d offer that you should be asking yourself some questions), needs to get on to their club county board delegate and let them know in no uncertain terms how unhappy they are about this.
its time those of us who can influence things, even in some small way, stop roading into a field of thistles and actually started taking some concrete action to reclaim our county team from some of the eeijets who have take it over.
Its a bit like smelling gas, dont assume someone else will call, if you feel strongly enough about it and are a club member you have a right, and indeed a responsibility to make sure your club delegate is going to take some action on this debacle.
I agree with Willie Joe regarding his comments about the situation having the potential to get worse if the appointment was reversed. But I would suggest the situation could get even worse than that scenario, if some of the people involved in this debacle remain in place after this Thursdays meeting.
Less said the better here I feel.
All this demonstrates that social media is unsuitable for proper argument/debate, where there are many variables, a lot of unknowns and vested interests on all sides eager to advance partisan causes.
I just think the whole appointment process was a bit like Kerry in the final last Sunday. The way they went about it wasn,t great but they got the right result in the end!!
After a good sleep on it, i think if Kevin mcstay has any sense he ll come out and say that he has no interest in the job at this stage and wish Noel and pat good luck.Noel and pat will have to take the job, there’s no other way. I had a short conversation one time with Kevin a good few years ago, I asked him why did he put what i thought was an injured player back on the field, he said that the player was willing to do it for the team, now it’s Kevin’s turn to take one for the team.
He has been shafted, unfortunately for the good of the team he has to remain shafted. And for Liam, less said on radio or tv the better.
Whatever went on I think it’s an absolute disgrace that this has gone to the national media and making mayo gaa look like a circus.
I have an issue with the off the ball argument being tainted with bias. There was no alternative side to the story and it’s hard to make a judgement on one side. Here you have ed Mcgreal a club mate of gerry Bourke and works in the mayo news who also employs mcstay and Liam mchale a want to be selector.
Secondly these two individuals have put unwanted negative attention on noel and pat.
Further more as Willie Joe has mentioned some of us may be familiar with how an interview process goes. If you apply or interview for a position of responsibility it involves a number of steps. Now if your cv is strong that’s a start, but if your application or the pitch in this case is not good enough then why the hell would you be interviewed. Unfortunately if one isn’t called for interview the other gets the job in this case.
As I have argued time and time on this blog there is an all Ireland in mayo sooner rather than later so continuity is key. Managers in kerry Dublin etc. Have taken over and delivered all Ireland in the first year so a radical plan that could take time is probably not wise.
As much as I agree that the County Board made a mess of the selection process, you’d have to question the likes of Gerry Bourke running to his club-mate Ed McGreal in the Mayo News about how he has decided to resign and the whole process was mis-handled. He then repeats the line a number of times that this is unfortunate and terrible timing for the new management team. If you were so worried about Mayo football and the new management team, you wouldn’t be running off to the local media about your recent resignation.
Then you have Liam McHale giving interviews to Newstalk, adding to the theories that he spends too much time talking and not enough thinking. Some people could help themselves a lot by just saying nothing.
I agree with that WJ. Definitely the right nan for the chair. Liam make a great suggestion about funding at county boardevel in the last thread. It should be taken to a more professional level at county board. I have lost faith in the way the county board go about their business. Funding for all football teams is too important for our prospects in the future to in these hands. Take a look at Club Tissue they are rolling it in.
Just a recap on some of this county boards finer moments over the last few years. Let’s start with the blind siding of a Strategic Review. The Mayo county boards contribution to it was a pamphlet called Galway Review with the word Galway scrawled out and Mayo written in.
Let’s not forget the handling of Tommy Lyons candidacy . Like him or not
The guy led two different counties to provincial titles plus a national league. He too deserved better than the scorn heaped on him.
Now look at a simple trip to London . A bus trip to Galway, a flight to Waterford, then to Southend and finally a bus to London. Next was the post All Ireland trip to the U.S. as a holiday for the players. Different flights to alleged unfinished hotels. Let’s not forget the insult to the New York Gaels when the FBD champs were too tired to go over. We shipped a fine for that.
Add in been rode blind by assorted referees and Croke Park officials. An U21 final played 6 days after a devastating senior loss played out in Ulster venue v Armagh.
By the way “continuity” for what? Pat Gilroy led Dublin in year 3 of his reign in 2011, Counihan did likewise in 2010, McGyinness in 2012 year two, Gavin Dubs year 1 and Fitzmaurice Kerry year 2. Horan had 4 years and it didn’t happen. The one fucking thing we needed was change not “continuity”.
The ability to see out 5 pressure minutes in Croke Park meant that Kerry leapfrogged us. They transitioned and we remained stale. Is it a handful in the county board that want “continuity”, is it s group of players? Sean Boylan is the only manager that secured Sam after 4 seasons. We don’t have a Boylan.
Sorry that should read Club Rossie. Phone refuses to pass Ross for some reason, most unfair.
I’ve just asked Off the Ball to clarify whether a representative of the county board was invited to contribute to the programme last night, out of interest. Will revert when (if) I hear back.
But in fairness, the county board have had ample opportunity to release their own statement on the matter, and it’s not like they’re slow in releasing statements when they decide it’s necessary ….
paddy mc said he wanted continuity,well the defination of insanity,is doing the samethings over and over again and expecting dferent results,love to know what was so radical about kevins plans,that didnt even warrant an interview, … [deleted].
100% agree with John Cuffe.
^^Pete Murray what’s wrong with continuity?
We were a gobshite of a ref, and an unfortunate collision away from an All Ireland final this year against an average Donegal team (who bar a 30-odd minute spell did nothing much all year).
In 2013 while we played poorly in the final we could have been out of sight at half time had we taken a few chances and not conceded a silly goal.
In 2012 bar the early goals we were well in it. In both these seasons we annihilated the reigning champions (bar a late flurry by Dub in 2012)
We really aren’t far away at all. Just need a bit of luck at this stage really
This is an unnecessary shambles. I’ve no issue with the 2 that have been appointed, in fact they probably edge it over McStay and Liam McHale (although I did favour McStay when he threw his hat in the ring) but if McStay meant Buckley leaving, then my preference would certainly be for Connelly and Holmes.
Changing the structures radically now would not help with the team we have, we do need a bit more continuity.
How hard would it have been for the county board to do the interviews and simply select the 2 they have without making a complete hames of it as they have done?.
Buckley is a serious asset, am absolutely delighted and pleasantly surprised he’s giving it another year. Very under-rated appointment there for me
Solan too looks a very shrewd appointment
Roll on 2015 now 🙂
Peter Murray – I’ve deleted that last bit of your comment. There’s no need to be making personal insults like that.
@ciaran and we lost every final since 1989,nearly never bulled acow
Well holy god, someone has suggested McStay should come out and say he has no interest in the job, is your real name Paddy by any chance. McStay was visibly in bits on tsg , it looked as if it had taken a lot out of him. A bit of compassion wouldn’t go astray here ffs, why should he do the CB a turn ?
People should do well to remember who is at fault here and who has been shafted. We will never win fook all till we have unity as a county and unity cant be achieved when that representation is there.
Edwin McGreal i see is even getting a bit of stick for bringing the story, i swear you cant win, the man is the best Mayo GAA journo out there.
Pete if a team who have made 2 AI finals and were a kick of a ball (and a horrific referee) away from making a third on the trot need radical changes then I dread to think what changes the other 28/29 or so counties below them need
This Mayo team is well good enough to win the All Ireland, at this stage who cares about teams from 89/96/97 etc
I swear some Mayo fans were just born to be negative
@ciaran the facts are there ,ill even go as far to say galway will win sam b4 mayo do,
Still need the rageometer WJ. I think we should disband the county, never kind the county board.
It’s seems like we have a Saipan like issue here now. The people who want McStay are never going to be happy and will try and keep the issue going in the hope they’ll get their man.
The people in the Connelly camp are happy at the appointment but unhappy with the process.
I wonder did people just go for a walk and blow off steam in the age before social media and the race to be the angriest took hold.
I think we are at DEFCON 2.
@ciaran the facts are there ,ill even go as far to say galway will win sam b4 mayo do,
Lol, it was said to me coming out of Salthill last year by a good Galway friend of mine ,i took it as a joke because of the hiding we had just given them but you know what i get it now , some people dont get it unfortunately . It cant be put into words , you just know if they add s&c to their backbone they have the silky stuff up front to do it.
they have got theconnaught rugby strenght and conditioning team onboard in an unofficial role at the moment,and that is afact,
Liam, you’re the one making out there is two camps. Good man though you sound great with your cool calm approach, it will get you another few virtual claps on the back and a virtual cb nomination.
@Ciaran. I agree 100% with regards negativity. One particularly prominent poster really revels in the misery. I’ve actually gone back over his posts and threw in the towel after reading OVER 80 posts and everyone of them was NEGATIVE. I’d say he eats lemons to cheer up in the morning he’s that bitter.
[Deleted].
If everyone could take a breather from the bilateral back-biting that’s going on for a minute (and in relation to which there are rules hereabouts, I might add), I think it’s worthwhile drawing everyone’s attention to what Kevin McStay said to the Evening Herald yesterday, which was the following:
“I’m obviously massively disappointed, but I totally understand that it’s their prerogative to go for a different candidate and I have wished them the best of luck – I sent both of them a text late on Saturday night.”
“As far as I’m concerned, once you are told there’s a preferred candidate, you slip out as gracefully as you can and that’s exactly what I have done.”
The piece in the Herald from which those quotes are taken is here.
Those having a pop at Kevin (there have been a few comments in that vein today) should perhaps reflect on what he’s said above in relation to the process and to the appointment of Noel and Pat to the job.
Radical change… My good God…
Applying Einstein’s quote about insanity to sport… Wow.
Liam, I got a giggle out of your earlier comments (and thanks for the dig there, Sean), but to be honest, I think the anger of supporters is justified here, and this certainly isn’t about there being two camps – far from it.
Rather, it’s a desire on the behalf on every decent, genuine supporter that due process is followed, that the best management team for the job is considered and selected with the best interests of the team in mind, and that we can all get behind the players next year in the knowledge that everything possible has been done to enhance their chances.
This is clearly not the case here, and to suggest that supporters are indulging in a Saipan-like battle simply because they are either pro-McStay or pro-Connelly is inaccurate and little unfair. Many of those here who were in favour of McStay have indeed already expressed their support of Connelly and Holmes.
Patriot – I’ve deleted that disgraceful personal attack in your comment and I’m a bit shocked that someone who has been commenting on here for as long as you have would stoop to something of that order. Cop yourself on.
@John cuffed I was talking about Jim gavin and I believe jack o’Connor and possibly can’t remember his name pat was his first name won for kerry in year 1. The only thing that cost us an all Ireland I believe was the inability of a man (horan) and his team to win a game and have a clear game plan and not play the same one dimensional football. So for all of you that say continuity My arse…continuity might actually mean holding onto the same group of players and altering our game…and radical suggests a major overhaul like rebuilding a new team which is not needed.
Interesting point to add to the mix. Anytime I listen to Liam mchale he is one of the most negative men in his punditry and it was interesting to read a piece in the irish examiner by a sports psychologist I believe that mentioned liars negativity so maybe he was part of the problem not the solution
Ok fair enough, you’re right. Should have held back but the whole thing has brought the game in mayo into disrepute and things will get worse before they get better.
Perhaps radical change might have meant being able to close game out, be able to beat a team with 14 men, setting up correctly or making quick decisive in game tactical switches?
Or they might have got us playing with 15 basketball ballers with a full court press for the 70+ minutes. We’ll never know..
I’m not disputing that Willie Joe , i was responding for someones call that McStay should make a statement to benefit the CB . He has done all he should and no more is required, he has held himself well and came out with his dignity in tact.
Patriot, i dont understand what you expected Ed McGreal to do, he was told by an executive cb member that he had resigned over the fact that the process that was agreed to wasnt kept and it became a sham. McGreal then brought the news, surely thats right. Was he supposed to add to the muddy waters and not report his findings?
@John cuffe yes pat on shea did it in his first year and so did jack o’Connor twice…In the same era so that should come under the term continuity
Mark – to be fair, we don’t know exactly how “radical” McStay’s plan was, or in what respect it was deemed to be so radical. That was the county board’s assessment of it, and while McHale himself did admit that they suggested wholesale changes, we don’t know of what nature they were. Correct me if I’m wrong, of course, but I don’t think the details of the proposal are public just yet.
So was it radical in terms of spending? Training regimes? New training initiatives? Team structures? Executive structures? Diet? Nutrition? S&C? Were they advocating scrapping the entire panel and starting from scratch?!
To the best of my knowledge, we don’t know. So I’m not convinced it’s reasonable for us to dismiss the proposals on the ground of radicalism, or dismiss a “radical” approach, given we don’t know what was actually contained within.
Anne Marie,
Once we were left with choosing between two very good candidates then it was always going to be decisive. I agree 100% that the county board treated both candidates and Kevin McStay in particularly very badly. But I feel that the correct team with the correct philosophy was chosen, even if how they were chosen was deeply flawed.
However, if a person feels that Mayo needs a radical change then you are not going to be happy and the farcical way the appointments were handled will only exacerbate this.
McGreal is a decent journalist but he is not a neutral observer, in Mayo GAA circles very few people are.
Fully agree with you there Anne Marie
Although I’m fully in favour of continuity I still wouldn’t have been against a few changes here and there if needed, but as you’ll say we’re unlikely to know what changes these actually were
However it’s the dismissal of the continuity approach which I can’t agree with. Things like “insanity is the definition…” or whatever the quote is. Yes a few changes may well get us over the line but there’s no evidence “continuity” won’t either. I fully believe we are a better side than that team that won Sam on sunday- yes, we couldn’t beat them over two legs but without trying to sound bitter, nothing went our way the second day really. I fully believe the team we have now, the way we play now, are good enough to win Sam. We just really need a bit of luck more than anything. We were a kick of a ball away in 2013 at the end of the day despite being well under par
But I didn’t feel a “radical” change was needed, and I’m still not happy. Pitching the two “sides” against each other here is disingenuous – particularly when it’s clear that pretty much everyone is aggrieved about the way the process was conducted. That was my point.
I also never mentioned Edwin McGreal’s reporting of the story, but I have no issue with his reporting of the event, given that the county board is well able to speak up for itself.
A reaction from the county board to Gerry burkes allegations of what went on should have been sought after and printed so that we could all know what the hell happened, rather than speculating and flying off the handle. That’s why this is dragging on and I don’t know why the county boards side of the story wasn’t given or was it looked for at the time.
No matter what job someone is in it’s imperative to get the other sides version of events. If it’s not received or gotten for whatever reason then the whole thing should be held back until the whole truth is uncovered. That’s why I’m unhappy at the way it’s been reported.
We have all been there, second best to a preferred candidate. My line was always “your loss then”. Keeping your head right is important, how you move on is crucial. I would look to fix what is broken. Improve weaknesses where they exist. If you cannot find any, then give the mirror a good wipe.
Not impressed with Mac hale rushing to newstalk after the story broke. If it’s true that some of the players didn’t want him then how could he become involved? I didn’t like the way he was critical of mayo in the media either, and his comments about ger Brennan were unhelpful before last years final too.
Kevin mc stay seems like a decent guy and has been poorly treated, but I can’t help remembering his media work regarding mayo over the last few years.
Someone made a point last week that Kerry are like Israel. All of their media men are wearing the Kerry jersey at all times and whatever’s best for Kerry comes before any sense of impartiality when it comes to national gaa matters. Hence why no Kerry gaa pundit even mentioned the ref after the limerick fiasco. It’s why bomber Liston attacked Jason docs “serial fouling” before the all Ireland semi final in his Irish independent column. They put Kerry first, and everything else after.
In contrast mc stay always seemed to me to be afraid to really stand up for mayo on TSG. It’s as if he was afraid someone would accuse him of bias, and I feel he really only batted properly for mayo after Horan resigned and the job became available. I was particularly annoyed at his silent response to Brollys ridiculous comments on mayos persistent fouling in the lead up to the 2012 final. No way would a high profile Kerry pundit have listened to that kind of crap from brolly if it was said about Kerry. I’m convinced Maurice deegan was influenced by those comments of Brollys in 2012 (remember the clear foul on Cillian in the lead up to mcfaddens goal). Mc stay should have put on his mayo jersey at that stage and put brolly firmly in his place, given the high profile platform he had on TSG.
Personally I’m happier with Noel Connelly but I do feel sorry for mc stay at the way he was treated.
Encouraging piece on hoganstand website where Noel Connelly has a few details on how he hopes to improve mayo next year. A focus on expanding the source of our attacking options so as we are not overly reliant on the half back line for scores is one point he makes and would be a welcome development. He also speaks about how almost all of our panel are 28-29 or younger apart from Dillon and Moran, and how they will aim for a good league next spring.
Read the piece everyone, it’s small but it’s a positive article in the national media on us, and I think its most welcome today in particular!! Might cheer people up a bit!
Anne Marie, I was referring to posters on here calling for radical change, not having a go at McStay. Somehow I don’t think the changes being called for above relate to diet and nutrition!
Enjoyed reading the piece on Noel. Need to move on from this whole ugly situation!
Well feck you Mac, how could you so badly read the county’s mood. I was hoping for a link to a video of Cormac Reilly, Pat McEnee and Pat Spillane in a hot tub mockingly singing “Sam Maguires comin home to Mayo”.
We don’t need radical changes, we need fine tuning. I feel we have the best coaching team available to us to achieve that with this group.
Do you think the fine tuning will include some new players?
if a team who have made 2 AI finals and were a kick of a ball (and a horrific referee) away from making a third on the trot need radical changes then I dread to think what changes the other 28/29 or so counties below them need
There have been many comments like this one. What we musr remember is that all the top teams will progress next year We must keep our eye on the ball. Change is necessary and any one of the top six teams can will Sam. All sport continus to Evolve and hopefully Connolly/Holmes will make changes.
Sean
I had thought yesterday that Connelly had to step aside until it’s cleared up and new interviews done, today I see it clearer. Mcstay won’t in my opinion want an interview after this, in the interest of Mayo football it might be best for to leave Connelly in place and Kevin to walk away.
Its a personal disaster for mcnicholas , I feel bad for him too, he has to live with this very severe lapse in judgement. It’s cringeworthy, embarrassing stuff for any man to have to live with.
That’s not to say he should be forgiven, but more pitied for making such a spectacle of himself. Mchale has as good as finished his chance of anything by taking it to radio.
Why should McStay have to some out and say he has no interest in the job to try and protect this apointemnt.? More lies. I think there have been anought of them.
Also what coud be more radical than appointing joint managers and yet the CB were ok to go with this.
The mind baffles….
An honest question Sean, who do you think was left out of this years squad that should have been there. I can think of Adam Gallagher. I thought Evan Regan was showing good progress in the FBD for Sligo but he didn’t really shine in castlebar for the u21’s against the Rossies (getting the goal not withstanding). Danny Kirby has to be worth a shot in the league.
Notwithstanding the frustration we all feel at this latest debacle I can’t help thinking it would be a good idea for everyone to step back for a little while and see what happens at tomorrow night’s meeting. It is wrong for people to make insulting comments or accusations about others or about our fellow Mayo supporters on the forum, irrespective of which management team we may have favoured. If others have conducted themselves badly fine but we should not do the same or we run the risk of bringing Mayo GAA into even further disrepute. WJ deserves our cooperation in this at least.
Yes i totally agree with what we the public know so far, Connelly has no reason to step aside. He has done nothing wrong as far as i can see.
Back to the radical changes debate. 2014 was imo one of the worst championships i have ever witnessed ,you can agree or disagree , it was primed for a team like Mayo to win Sam this year add in the fact that the best team in Ireland were caught cold by Donegal , all the hard was done for Mayo but we still didnt get there. I balme Reilly too and the choice of venue but it still doesnt alter the fact we didnt put Kerry away in the first game either when we were in a position to.
2015 will bring more teams into the equation, Kerry are now a serious outfit they have won sam despite having no gooch add in the possibility of a returning Tommy walsh and a minor team with serious talent. Dublin will be ripping their shirts off in anticipation of 2015. Cork will improve. Galway will improve. Some team from Ulster will emerge maybe even Donegal again or Tyrone.
We have to improve is my point, more of the same will see us slip back in the pecking order. We have to unearth at least 3 players imho. And Connelly s point about our scoring threat cannot be based on our hb line is good place to start.
wj while i compliment the “board” on the efficent appointment of a new manager for the county team, it is dissapointing to see the way the interviews were conducted.
mayo people deserve a more proactive chairman, one who is willing to row in behind a manager, and to delegate with croke park etc…
To conclude delegates need to issue a vote of no confidence in the current chairman, and elect someone who is willing to do the hard work.
Mac, s left boot, very true I have watched k mcstay in action during james tenure and how right you are. Anybody watching p spillane sunday night would think kerry produced the greatest display , and even if they lost he would not have ran down fitzmaurice.
WJ – A well written and balanced piece as usual and I agree that none of this is Noel or Pat’s fault however…Ed McGreal is correct, their appointment is tainted now with the clear impression that they were always going to be selected regardless of the quality of their presentation or the strength of their ideas.
If the lads go on to win an AI next year then this will be soon forgotten, but if we are relegated from Div 1 or make an early exit from the championship then this will be raked up for sure along the lines of ‘sure they only got the job because they were insiders’
This could yet work out better than expected in that the team built around Donie Buckley is an excellent one … I’ll grant that the chairman could have achieved that in a roundabout way !
In addition we may get a newer better CB tomorrow night.
I would agree with WJ’s summary above & that it is now time to move on.
Keith Ruttledge of Knockmore is one guy I’d expect to make an appearance in FBD league anyway, scored 5 or 6 from play against breaffy the last day and is only 21 or 22 so still plenty of scope for development.
Hopefully the 2012/13 minors will start appearing in senior squads soon enough too…
Guys like Shane Nally of Garrymore could be in the mix too next season after a good club championship, he was a highly rated underage star who is still young enough to make it at senior level.
Sean Burke there’s no doubt the new regime will bring in some new players, the question is will they be good enough? Time will tell I suppose.
Perhaps Mick Barrett should be brought to the meeting on Thursday to ask the chairman ‘what he was at’… we could tell the stewards to wait outside!!!
Hang on..are we accepting that McNicholas & co had Mayo football at the heart of their decision making process?? I certainly do not for a second believe the interests of the Mayo senior football team were top of their agenda. They wanted someone who woudl not rock the boat and instead tow the line with them.
It is they who claim McStay’s approach was going to be too radical..these are co board words NOT McStay’s. It’s far too simplistic and a fob off to say that Connelly was proposing continuity and McStay was prosposing radical changes. I wouldnt believe a word from the county board – they as WJ said in a previous post, made untruths on saturday….or lies as I prefer to call them.
So lets put to bed the notion that what McStay wanted was too radical….we have no idea what he wanted and i for one am not going to take a word emanating from the county board as truth. What I do know is that vast majority of Mayo supporters and public wanted McStay in charge…and I believe we need a detailed response on this. The county board quite clearly do not represent the Mayo GAA population but instead … [deleted].
John Cuffe – agree with everything you said…100%
Was it true I wonder that certain players did not want McHale or was this something put out there by the county board. If true were player were also players asked for opinions or was it just a select one or two?
Macs left boot , agree totally with you on mcstays tenure in TSG, he let loads of Orourke and brolly and Spillane digs past him over the years including my personal most ignorant quote “junk status” from Spillane.
Although machale wrote some things about the players I believe the players should have very little input into who is in the set up and if machale was appointed by mcstay then I would expect them to lump it.
Am very happy with the team and certainly want evolution at this stage not revolution. We still need to get cuter still! Our players have really become tougher and more single minded under James Horan but more can be done..
Would any of our lads done what Barry john did on Sunday ? God I hope so!
Look at Walsh vs,. Mayo , Aidan Oshea was raising an imaginary card like a Barcelona player, telling the ref what to do , but Walsh did his river dance around Keegan and got him sent off. Walsh now has a Celtic cross in the lamh.
Let’s let this CB mess run it’s course now and be ready ourselves to support the team in the FBD
Hang on there, Mayonaze – members of the County Board responsible for this mess certainly have things to answer but claiming that the entire County Board have ulterior motives in what they’re doing is a bit outlandish. I’ve had to delete that last bit of your comment as it’s simply something you cannot support.
You’re correct, though, in saying that it was the Board’s representatives who said Kevin McStay’s proposed approach was too radical – this piece in The Score quoting Liam McHale confirms that this was the case but I don’t think, to be honest, that this is a huge point as Liam did confirm on NewsTalk last night that they wanted to make “lots of changes” – this piece in the Irish Independent has more on what he said last night.
The sooner this Fuck up is sorted out the better for everyone, one thing for sure the team are going to need and see our support now more than ever and that starts with the first FBD league game.Regardless who is on the county board at that stage without these lads on the field we have nothing.Whatever Fuck ups the county board make it won’t stop our team giving their all on the pitch and we have to do the same from the stands.They have given us four great years now we must give our all for them.
It was clear from the outset that there was an intention to keep some of the existing mgt. JH as good as vouched this since the Kerry defeat. That’s what has happened. As fans we need to stand aside and let procedure prevail at Thursday nights meeting now. McHale has cut his ties obviously by his comments on off the ball. IMO players should not be allowed dictate the appointment. There should be a clean slate as regards possible players with the new mgt. This is new mgt and every footballer in Mayo should be affored the chance to make the grade based on their ability/performances for their respective clubs. I fear a bit of arrogance from the existing panel. At the end of the day they still failed to deliver what ultimately they had control over.
Team Sheet……completely and respectfully disagree over the players having a say.
This should absolutely have been let play out before certain people went on the national airwaves making accusations
Whitey I would allow them a very limited say, I don’t think allowing players to name their coach would work for any team
Why not allow players have say. I trust Moran, Dillon, keithy etc. I’d very very happily go along with their choice…way more than mcnicholas, Lambe, neary etc.
WJ – fair enough re: my comments on co board. However, my issue is with use of the words ‘too radical’. It’s has negative connotations.
Long and short I think we nearly all agree mcnicholas has to go and he can take Lambe with him for a start.
Unfort, I’m not living in the county an therefore not involved with a club.
Just gonna throw in three more words 😉
Foxford
Priest
Curse
Why should players have a say, how would they know they’ll even be players in 2015? Wrong message to be sending, everyone should be on their toes, players have a job to do ,it called playing football. One clear message that should be sent out by any new management team is that its a clean slate and imo that goes right down to even an ageing Conor Mort.
Well when the current coach is widely respected, qualified, proven and battle hardened, and the “proposed coach” is none of the above, absolutely the players should have a say
@mayozone you leftout 3,oneil,reilly,donaghey
Players should not have a say in my opinion. Dangerous road to go down, which of them gets to have a say and which of them doesn’t.
Whilst I have no doubt that the intentions of most of the county board members are honorable there is definitely a problem. I have attended county board delegate meetings and other events including AGMs. My overall impression is one of greyness and tiredness. Most of the delegates are only there because nobody else in their club will accept the job. The people in the big posts appear saddened and worn down by the way they are often mistreated by their club members, other delegates and the press. They are used to abuse, including personal abuse and often this is not hidden and in their faces. This has created a them and us approach. In order to get in you have to join in the existing thinking. This has led to very poor decisions and a lack of openness that has compounded the problem leading to further accusations being levied at them. Some have tried to break this trend – the likes of Kevin O’Toole, Diskin, etc.. A complete sea change is necessary where the existing senior board members need to lead the movement. Younger delegates need to be attracted. A period of “Peroistroika” is needed. Which of the grey tired men will be brave enough to lead this? Having being involved with other sports and having knowledge of other counties this is a problem elsewhere also. Huge sympathy and respect goes to some very hard working county board members but sorry lads change is necessary.
Those critising Mchale for telling the truth GET REAL. Firstly we wouldn’t know these details without him and secondly, he works for NewsTalk.
Absolutely no player input. Certain players would have more clout and leaves an imbalance.
There can only be one boss. We were told all through the championship that we had leaders on each line of the pitch….that’s were players should have their say…leading the charge. It’s a new tenure and competition should be fresh – obviously certain players will have no worry. If your good enough your in.
In reality, despite all the saga…The Coboard is the administration while the Team is under the Mnager control – good communication will improve matters. The way I see it ( as hinted by JH), Connelly will manage the team, Holmes deal with the CoBoard.
are clubs taking names for tickets for tomorrow nights board meeting??
could get trampled in the rush……..
ah now just trying to lift the mood…….
McStay in Herald backing up McHale
http://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/kevin-mcstay-reveals-massive-disappointment-in-missing-out-on-mayo-post-and-slams-liam-mchales-detractors-30611206.html
TG this is happening now in the football silly season.Both management teams would be good in my opinion. I suppose CB have to keep a cap on costs. The worst thing that could happen is a large cull of the panel.
@petermurray….ur right peter. Don’t get me started on them.
Interesting piece by McStay in the Herald, defending McHale. Well anyone I know who has ever worked under McHale has loved the guy.
This all sucks to put it mildly. I’ll hold my hand up, I was fervently in favour of McStay …of course I’ll support the team etc as I and Big Bertha have done for decades but there’s been far too many ‘could have been’ stories in Mayo football and I fear, in time, that this will be another.
I wouldn’t mind if the appointment of C&H was a fair and just one. Then the disappointment would fade but I feel like an Al Gore supporter in 2000. He had the majority of public support too. I honestly believe McStay would have been the man to bring this talented bunch of players over the line in September.
It’s been a very sad month for Mayo football and I fear we’ll look back in time and regret what might have been with McStay. That’s just my opinion. Obv I hope I’m wrong.
McStay interview from earlier today…sound isn’t great.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/player/809/647825/
@mayonaze the brigit boys love Mchale as outlined by curran on twitter
The sad thing about it is I can see McStay managing the rossies
Of course McHale was correct to give his side of the story, get it out there before the other versions were drip fed out . Horan was fast enough going to media, writing for the Independent the week of the All Ireland. A Kerry manager who had four years in charge and lost two AI finals and a League final during that time would be keeping his head down the week before an AI. There would be no cigars around the kingdom for him.
I am rather puzzled as to what is the story with this guy Buckley. The state of play seems to be that he is a stake in the Mayo ground and the management team has to be built around him. I am rather surprised that he being so indepensible was ever let leave Kerry in the first place or that he ever felt the need to leave himself.
No team member should ever have input into the selection of the head honcho and that goes for members of the back room team. I am sure no member of the Kerry team with their new glistening AI medals would be asked for their opinion on who the next manager should be. They would be told to concentrate on winning the next AI or move on.
Great insight berry, I don’t understand why we would want continuity ?? Why continue a plan that has repeatedly failed??
Is buckley with Kerry under 21s as well as Mayo seniors for 2015?
Of course players should have a say, who gets out at dawn to go training, not the bloggerson here or the county board, if they have no confidence in the management it will not work while I felt c and h were the best option, I feel that mcstay and mchale were treated disgradisgracefully, I dont know whether the players were against them or not but they should have been interviewed at least. But we must move on sort out the county board.get behind the players or else we will go nowhere next year
Lads McStay saying that he is not a big loss to mayo, but Mchale is a massive loss to mayo .. duignan fairly went through the mayo players there and I have to agree. In any field you have to be able to accept constructive criticism. I listen to news talk every day at work and have heard Mchale a lot and I can’t remember him ever over stepping the mark. Either in the WP, I know he was fairly critical of Horan after 2012 AF but so was I ?? I can’t remember any tactical adjustment during the game? I recall horans interview after the Connaught final against London, it struck me, but Horan was asked why it took so long to get going, and he responded by saying that he took the players a while to figure out what they were doing? I always assumed that the manager was there to help with that issue?
This fiasco is so typical of the GAA down the years and one of the reasons I no longer get involved in clubs . The handling of this appointment is not just confined to Mayo and could happen in any county or club where a committee are running things.
Take Donegal for instance where I now live. Jim Mc Guinness brought a radical plan to a county board meeting . When he asked for a projector to display his presentation he was laughed out the door. Several years later and after the safe choice of John Joe Doherty a man out of his depth but a good ole yes man brought Donegal to a new low and nobody wanted the Job in stepped Jim. the rest you know only too well.
While we can’t compare the situation in Mayo now it is very similar in a way to what happened in Donegal pre Jim .
saying that I hope We have the right team on board but I would give them a year to get over the line. the All Ireland is there for the taking if we really believe and go for it. Kerry do whatever it takes and we need to go there too.
Just listened to the link Alf put up.Firstly I think Duignan is 100% right,which of us has never been criticized for something we havnt done right,very few I’d say,so do we hold on to it and feel bitter about it or use it to better ourselves.Secondly it’s obvious listening to Kevin and Liam that they really had their hearts set on the job and more importantly they really believed they could get us over the line .I hope I’m wrong but l think we really missed out on a great chance.I hope that this Paddygate Fuck up hasn’t put them off getting involved in the future.
A lot has been said and written for better or worse. And I’m absolutely sure there’s a hell of a lot more that could be said.
But one thing that would help considerably would be for those involved to say exactly what happened, no matter how embarrassing, say why it happened and be brave enough to take whatever blame or responsibility is appropriate. In my experience of leadership and management honesty, openness and humility are rarely bad strategies to adopt. I feel even at this stage it would help everyone involved and make it much easier to move forward. What we absolutely don’t need are sidesteps or any attempt at neat footwork in order to avoid responsibility. If anyone here has influence with the people involved perhaps they might advise them along these lines. I have no doubt but that all of those involved have the best interests of Mayo football at heart. They now need to put the needs of Mayo ahead of their own need to avoid embarrassment and awkwardness.
@Pacar sure Mchale said he won’t be involved again. I can’t see McStay going back either. Future Roscommon management team
@Bob
Sure who could blame them, you can be sure they won’t get fucked about there
Rossies will be a serious outfit in next 2-3 years is my guess, next year probably still a bit early for them inexperienced and still developing. Great county to take on in fairness, primed for progress.(unfortunately) .
Liam and Kevin have green and red flowing through them. There is no way they would not take an opportunity to take the reins if the CB are sorted out. Liam saying never again ( I am sure he said, he cant see himself involved again, not an outright refusal but I only listened once), is, I am sure, a raw reaction.
He and Kevin will have plenty to say about how Mayo are doing in the next couple of years, as so John O’Mahony, John Maughan and now possibly James Horan will. This is what the media do, ring around the go to guys for a quote and twist it whatever way they want in terms of the piece, headline or radio segment.
The first thing everybody needs to do if Pat and Noel are ratified is get behind them and the players, not say what if? at the first defeat or setback.
Kob , Liam and Kevin will have plenty to say in the next couple of weeks! One is in the western and the other in the mayo news!
Lads I was unclear what was going to happen after this news broke but I assumed the process would be stalled, CB reviewed and the two proposals reviewed properly the second time ? If I was Connelly I would feel more positive if the two proposals were reviewed and McStay given a fair chance ?
This whole saga is disgusting, it will be alot worse when McStay takes over the rossies next year. Hope none of the panel become disillusioned and take a year out.
McStay should go with some county and show us what he has got on the sideline, even Roscommon. I have not seen him excell in Mayo the way the other candidates have. I need to be convinced. His popularity is based mainly on his media work. I have always had great time for Liam, and while I understand his disappointment I feel he is burning his bridges in a manner which will ultimately come back to hurt him. What a pity that would be.
@PJMcManus elaborate on what You mean by hurt please ??
Kevin would probably have got the job if he didn’t have that feckin mchale with him ,,,, anyway best lads got the job ,,,,,,
Listening and reading all about the appointment off managers etc, why did McStay/ McHale apply for the job when JH was appointed. Mayo then were at rock bottom and the so called bright boys would not apply. Now that JH has brought us to the promised land the men who would not manage their own native club (Ballina) who are now facing relegation, went to outside clubs. In fairness to Connolly/ Holmes they stuck with their clubs to this day. This idea that Connolly/Holmes appointment in “tainted” is a load off crap. They are proud Mayo men. Its a bit like the “prodigal son”, when he comes back we should give him everything. In fairness to the County Chairman he told McStay the truth and he was man enough to accept it, as for McHale all talk and no work. When Connolly/Holmes have their time done it will be time to call in players in the present squad to lead us. Get over it and move on.
Did someone in the county board tell Connelly to release the statement on his future plans for the team?What was he on about?A half-arsed statement if there ever was one and i have nothing against the man but christ.
There is no doubt that mc stay has shown a lot of class and dignity in the manner in which he has handled his obvious disappointment.
I am wondering what radical proposals he had for the team .
Continuity is good if a team is successful but if we are to be honest ,falling at the final hurdle twice is and should never be accepted as successful.
I think having lost 2 all Ireland’s in recent times mc stay reasoned that a more radical approach was required.Could you blame him.
What this radical approach was I have no real idea.however my guess is that he would base his tactics largely on st brigids approach in winning the club all ireland final, massive will to win,very strong work ethic,cuteness in closing out tight games,targeting dangerous players from opposing teams.aka Kerry.
Sincerely hope Connolly Holmes are the real deal because if they are not this team may never reach their full potential and the chance to apply radical change lost.
Only time will tell.
We knock everyone . Liam Mchale gets it for being Liam Mchale . Kevin Mcstay gets knocked for being Kevin . Edwin mcgreal for telling the tale . Gerry Bourke for resigning . CB for the shit they have stirred up. Then we all turn on each other because of this mess. WJ I don’t know how you have time for this blog . It’s a busy old county we have . Anyway I don’t agree that players should have an input into who the manager is . Does it matter if the players don’t like Liam Mchale (if that’s true).Its good to have someone that challenges them . Who are the players that know for certain they will be involved in 2015. Do they think there is no one waiting for their chance to fill a jersey . What do they want to be comfortable in the set up, relaxed knowing they will be picked regardless of how they are performing . It’s men that want to represent this great county we want . Not men who think they own a jersey based on how good they were last year .what players would be asked for their choice of management team? That would only cause more divisions . Mayo players are putting in so much effort because they want to achieve . All players know or should know its a honour to wear a county jersey . The best management team is not always the one that you are comfortable with . Look at Kerry , probably the best no.5 of the last decade retires and in steps a man from nowhere to be motm in the all ireland final (motm according to Sunday game panel ) . There is no one irreplaceable in a TEAM.
Have to say lads there is a serious lack of perspective and hysteria in this thread, the only thing we should be critical about is the appointment process, in many cases people are basically criticising the board for not appointing McStay.
I don’t know and certainly nobody here knows who will better, neither McStay nor Connelly have managed at this level before so let’s wait and see. I mean before all this there were reams of comments with people saying a tweak here and a tweak there was all that was needed, now it seems we need to change everything.
And Ming in Europe sorry to single you out but you’re quoting from a very brief Hogan Stand article that is pulling quotes the Mirror which in itself is pulling quotes from the Mayo News so the interview with Connelly is being reduced each time.
McHale has provided more “dressing room wall” material to our opponents than I care to remember over the past 5 years.
How can you expect the current crop of players to respect and respond to someone like that.
When it was initially announced that Buckley was leaving for Kerry, some folks on here were calling it a “crushing body blow” on top of Horan leaving.
Now its a “crushing body blow” that he’s STAYING because McHale didn’t get the job
Agree totally joe
Its totally not properly following the process and the Chairman taking off on a power based solo run and then attempting to cover up that is the issue. Not the candidates. If the process was properly followed, Connelly and Holmes would STILL be the Management appointed remember.
People here unfortunately are turning this into a McStay/McHale v Connelly/Holmes thing..ye all blame the Co Board for the drama, but many of ye are creating this side drama where there is none. Yes, personally, I am for the Connelly / Holmes ticket because I think they have a better ground roots involvement in Mayo football and have a better all round record in managing Mayo teams. If McStay had been selected, then I would have accepted and backed him 100%. But as I said before, I think people are caught up in this and McHales media personas. I discount that when assessing the candidates. I’m sure if Connelly was on TSG every week he would have higher ratings. Only my opinion, and I totally respected them as players – McHale is the best player I ever seen play for Mayo, and I think they, esp McStay talks a very good game, but they are unproven as inter county management. So are C&H, but a little bit more proven IMO.
But its really sad that this is being turned into a side drama. And for posters above hoping McStay goes to Roscommon, well good luck to him if he does and good luck to ye too! I dont give a flying Fck about them, if a Mayo man wants to manage them and gets some success with them, fair play, but its nothing to do with this issue.
If ye all are true Mayo people and we claim to want the same thing, calm down of the hyperbole. Let the Thursday meeting take its course, hopefully proper process and accountability will prevail. If not, as Willie Joe says, vote with yer feet and get down to yer clubs and voice your opinion. Social media will not effect change on the Co Board!
And once the process is over, whatever the result, Get to fck behind the new management team 200% if ye really want Mayo to be successful and lets not drag this up at every opportunity when things dont seem to go the way you think it should go. If they fail, lets move on and try again with a new management. Thats the way life goes.
Whatever we think of the virtues, strengths and weaknesses of each of the candidates that went for the position, one thing we can all be sure of, is they want Mayo to win the All Ireland, more so than we do, because they get off their asses and do something about it, make sacrifices that none of us could ever even contemplate. Mayo football will always be much bigger than any individual, cock-up or drama. And amen to that.
kL,
I’m not sure that Mayo football is bigger than any individual or cock up. Mayo football has been brought down repeatedly by individuals with notions of their own omnipotence and their incompetence. This applies particularly with team manager appointments. Go back to 1991 when they [the incompetents] thought they should elect selectors who the coach would have to work with. Departure of young coach to do his best work outside Mayo. Then selection of a replacement who made us a laughing stock all over the country. Then an unproven superstar who in two years brought us our probably two worst results ever. Things improved after that for about ten years. Anthony Egan restored some credibility and John Maughan brought us to the gates of Paradise even though we did not get admittance. But the appointment of Moran/Morrison in 2005 was another cock up. They had never improved any team they were with [and didn’t afterwards either] but Moran had proven his credentials as a Co Board man by taking the Derry job behind Eamonn Coleman’s back. He then basically lined out John Maughan’s 2004 team and an eight point defeat in 2004 became 13 points in 2006. Then we had the Messiah’s second coming but he had lost his magic.
My basic point is that over the last 25 years we have had an approx. 50% chance of making a bags of Team Manager appointments because of Co Board officials egos and incompetence.
AndyD I think your being very harsh on Moran and Morrison there in fairness. They were here for 1 year and got us to the final, with a vastly inferior bunch of players to the present day squad. Some of the players who started in 04 and 06 finals wouldn’t even get into the current mayo squad.
Your pretty easy on Anthony Egan too who also led us for one year in 95 when a very average Galway team hammered us out the gate in tuam. A year later john Maughan nearly won Sam with the majority of the same players.
I feel that players like AOS Cillian and lee keegan will be playing football into late August on an annual basis for the duration of their careers and that to me is James Horans greatest legacy. Consistently competitive.
Just think that we need to take a longer term view and realize that not many serious people (other than short term opportunists from outside) want the Mayo job anymore. Why?
Because of the expectation levels now, the continuous abuse, the huge workload & the fact that you’re branded a failure if you don’t win the All Ireland every year.
No future management team will be able to last more than 2 years because of these inflated expectations unless they win the All Ireland.
For those reasons I would attempt to put a cyclical management system in place now.
This would also have the added value of not having these debacles every time an appointment has to be made.
If Connelly/Holmes were installed for the next 2 years with McStay/McHale earmarked for the following 2 years it might leave both parties & their support base semi satisfied.
It may be a non runner for one or other party but I do believe it’s worth considering … otherwise we could have this situation again in 2 years with lesser candidates to choose from.
Paddygate to make a statement tonight explaining everything and will answer all questions
Will be some statement I’d say.
A statement is not enough pacar. He must go. If Mayo football has any credibility the Chairman, the PRO and anybody involved in Saturday’s shennagins have to walk.
I thought myself yesterday that Pat and Noel should step aside. There have been a lot of very good points made here about why they should not, and I have come around to that point of view. The players and the management should just focus on football.
But the shambolic actions by the County Board over many years are now clear to all. They are holding Mayo football back. They held James Horan back, and they held the players back. We need dynamic, passionate and professional people involved and that is the type of backing the new managers and the players deserve. And if financial support from supporters is to be made the credibility issue must be sorte.d
Anyone else fed of reading comments along the lines…”McStay to Roscommon will be a disaster for us” – ffs we are Mayo….are ye that insecure about our own county. Let Roscommon do what they want, we concentrate on ourselves.
Mac’s left boot says:
i would say it was the players that got to the 2006 all ireland final somewhat inspite of M&M. This was clear to see at the beginning of the semi final v Dublin, and the quick disguarding of the “hub” strategy that has proved succesful in Derry.
They were only ever going to complete a 2 year term due to travel and when it became clear JOM was available then the CB acted to get him. Not a single person was complaining at the time either.
M&M were not the original choice at that time, Jordan was. When M&M threw their hat in the ring, a certain amount of pressure was placed on the CB to appoint them.
By the end of that season, the relationship between the Mickey and John has seriously deteriorated, there were disputes about club games and a famous walk out over a crossmolina game which clashed with some festival there.
Arguments over the fitness of players leading into the final and the (mythical or not) story of players asking what the plan for donaghy was and being told to worry about him on the day.
Scraping by Leitrim, galway and needed two chances at Laois are hardly stuff of legendary status and i think the semi final epic tends to bias the years football.
No point in making false prophets
@Steve
Many people feel that with all that has gone on over the last few days that it could affect the team and see us slipping backwards instead of moving on and getting over the line. Many now see Kevin McStay as the next Roscommon manager and feel he can at least secure connaught with them,they do have a lot of good young talent coming through, don’t forget we were lucky to come out of the Hyde with a win this year.
Reading Joey,s blog that it would be suitable for Connolly/Holmes to take it for 2 years and then appoint Mc Stay/McHale the next 2 years. That is a meaning that we now appoint managers for the next generation based ” if we didn’t get it this time we will get it next time”
Jesus I never read so many fucking agenda driven comments. Anti McHale, Anti McStay, Anti evey member of the CB.
A bit of calm maybe, the CB won’t say a word until after the meeting tonight. The delegates will have their say. Anyone here commenting with an opinion should be letting their delegate know where you stand (providing your’e a club member, which is another question.
From the outset it seems clear that Chairman has to go (if what’s reported are the facts)
If anyone else is complicit in this well they need to be held to account by whatever mechanisms are in place.
Giving out about the Mayo News and McHale reporting it is shithawkery. The same people would be bitching if ye didn’t hear about it or heard about it from the media in the east.
Can we not just hold fire until tonight unfolds?
Anyway, that is all.
@Pat Murtagh
Totally agreed with you Pat,for shame sake you would think he would walk,he has some hard neck to go in there tonight and try to justify his actions but surely the members will Fuck him out.
Bob. With all due respect, when dealing with a group off young fellows the art of building bridge’s is a key prerequisite. Now apply this to the way he is handling his current disapointment. Saying your finished publicly before all the story is aired is just poor decision making. Of the type we are all so disappointed with the county board chairman for during the week. I was expecting a bit more tact from Liam given the job he had applied for, now I am disappointed in him.
@steve. Well said. The insecurity of some people is shocking..”he’ll go to Roscommon” , “they’re laughing at us in Kerry”. If he goes to Roscommon so be it, we’ll hammer them in McHale next year and then we’ll drive on. Kerry laugh at everyone and with 37 title they’re entitled to.
I was listening to Aiden O’Shea on Matt Cooper yesterday. Matt was asking him about taking a break and Aiden said, “I’ll have a good break during the year, the championship doesn’t start till August bank holiday weekend”. Now that’s the confidence that I fucking like to hear and he said it pure matter of fact. Could any other team in Connacht make that statement and not be titling at windmills?
We’re 3rd favourites for next year and that’s a fair reflection. We’re in the top 4 teams in the country and I for one am happy with that.
I heard that interview on Matt Cooper show last night. Fair play to Aidan for that. Also said he couldn’t wait for competitions to start next year, when he was asked how do we keep coming back.
A lot of people are taking solace in the notion that McStay’s approach was too ‘radical’, and that continuity was the way to go. But has anyone tried to define what radical actually might be? For instance, was Eamon Fitzmaurice’s approach this year a radical change? Yes absolutely. However, one thing it was also, was functional. I think Horan might have been guilty of falling into the ‘galacticos’ approach with mayo, where he tried to get as many big hitters on the field as possible, regardless of what they meant to the overall team. The result of that was too many attacking defenders, which cost us on more than one occasion, and a forward line with lots of good players, but no real attacking fulcrum. This is the ‘change to the style of play’ that I believe McHale was referring to, and Eamon Fitzmaurice has shown us that radical isn’t necessarily a bad thing.
Kerry changed from a system of getting all their ‘best players’ on the pitch and letting the result take care of itself, to putting out a team that will defend effectively, attack effectively, and engineer results. Radical? Yes. Effective? Definitely.
Mac’s left boot & Andy D Who was the coach/trainer under Anthony Eagan who led us for one year in 95 when a very average Galway team hammered us out the gate in tuam? Answer – K.McStay
In the 1995 Connacht Final Mayo were beaten by 7 points in a game when they shot, I think, 17 wides. They were, apart from the inaccuracy, a total reversal of the 1993/94 teams. This inaccuracy was a problem which John Maughan failed to eliminate in his tenure. also those teams were largely based on the U21 teams which reached All Ireland finals in the two preceding few years and were therefore that bit stronger and more mature. It is not possible to judge a management team performance on one year alone when they are trying to build practically from scratch. I have no doubt that Egan would have been allowed continue had John Maughan not become available with his Clare credentials. Similarly had John O’Mahony not resigned as Galway manager post the 2005 championship John Maughan would have been under pressure to continue as manager. Remember there was only three points in it at the end of the 1995 QF v Kerry. When O’Mahony became “available” the Co Board were only too quick to jump and when he decided to take a break from management they were left high and dry. And Tom Jordan knew his tenure, if he took the job, would always be under the shadow of O’Mahony. Thus the arrival of Moran/Morrison. Kerry’s Johnny Crowley had exposed our weakness under the high ball in 2004 and to go into the 2006 final against Donaghy with the same set up, including one of the smallest corner backs in modern football, was ridiculous. and before you complain about James Horan not having a plan for Donaghy remember that Ger Cafferkey handled him quite well in their last championship meeting in 2011. And did Moran/Morrison improve any of the many teams they managed?
I really think we should hear the outcome from tonight before rushing to judgement. It seems that the process was not followed correctly or was pre-empted but it is not the end of the world or mayo football. However, we should all get behind the team and the new managers (who have had no hand in the process) and stop bickering amongst the supporters. Too many hidden (or maybe not so hidden!) agendas here… for my liking
@PjMcManus you didn’t answer my question? What do you mean by hurt ? Willie Joe I can’t believe you are allowing these posts go up?? Have you something against Mchale too?
I’ll tell you what, Bob, why don’t you have a go at moderating comments round here and see how you get on? I’m not sure what you’re referring to when you say “these posts” and I’m not one bit amused by the allegation you’ve directed against me. You can either withdraw it or else that’s the last comment you’ll be making on this site.
Follow the conversation WJ I tried removing it but I can’t, delete if you want
That’s not a retraction, Bob, I’ll give you one last chance to do so.
As I said Willie Joe I don’t know how to do it digitally, consider it the statement retracted. But I am aggrieved by doing this, as I was defending a mans character, and if you follow the conversation, I expect you to question what PJ said.
@KL…” Social media will not effect change on the Co Board!”
I couldn’t disagree more. But I’m sure the CB have their “plants” in social media and in forums like this, so beware of the “lets move on” and “get behind the county” brigade. I see it already, its setup perfectly!
However we all know the CB is strapped for cash (as we all are) so IMO the most effective way to protest is to call and cancel your Cairde ticket and tell them why. Don’t worry, they’ll welcome your money again at any time…and if your concerned about not having a season ticket, sign up for the Croke Park one, its a good deal.
That’s fine, Bob, retracted it is. You’ve a strange way, I might however add, of “defending a man’s character” by calling another’s (i.e. mine) into question, which is why I had to ask you to retract what you said. Also, I’ll moderate the site as I see fit and it’s not your place, as someone who only turned up here a wet week ago, to tell me what or who I should be questioning.
Willie joe I am not trying to curry favour with you, but you do a brilliant job on this site, so keep up the good work